Player assessment

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

Speed used to influence infield hits and also played a small role in EBH that were not homeruns.

This is old info, like OOTP 6.5 days

But I have a feeling that has carried over into the new engine.
My anecdotal evidence is that speed does help players get a few more hits and also more doubles and triples.

yes, this is what I have always thought as well.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Dutch Alexander

Quote ===========================================
Speed
Speed is a measure of how quickly a player can run from one base to the next. Players with a high rating in Speed are more of a threat to steal bases, and are more likely to advance further on a ball in play. Running Speed is strictly for offensive play. For example, Speed does not factor into an outfielder's range. However, Speed and Defensive Range are linked internally. For example, as a player ages, his speed and range will generally decline at the same pace.
Unquote=========================================

In real life high running speed would lead to more infield hits, thus a higher BABAIP but I'm not sure that it's the same in the game. What is obvious is that his high number of 2B's and 3B's are fueled by his elite running speed (more likely to advance further on a ball in play). It makes me think that running speed is an undervalued skill in the game, especially if it has an efect on BABIP. I never realised it had such an effect on doubles and tripled, I always thought this was mainly triggered by Gap Power.

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Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

Speed used to influence infield hits and also played a small role in EBH that were not homeruns.

This is old info, like OOTP 6.5 days

But I have a feeling that has carried over into the new engine.
My anecdotal evidence is that speed does help players get a few more hits and also more doubles and triples.

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

yes, this is what I have always thought as well.

I agree. From the bold in the definition of speed Dutch posted speed is a measure of base to base, so some IF hits are successful because of speed from base to base, in this case Home to First.

Originally Posted by Rain King

Speed is basically misnamed as a rating. It is really Stealing (maybe also baserunning?) Aggressiveness.

The mediocre Stealing/Baserunning ratings means he will actually get thrown out a lot stealing (maybe also trying to advance extra bases).

I agree the high speed/low steal will be thrown out a lot. I don't agree that speed equals aggressiveness. That is controlled by how the AI sets the player's strategy (does the AI even set individual strategies for it's teams? IDK) or whether or not the manager gives the runner the steal sign. IOW how aggressive is the manager and what ratings trigger him to send his runners? I don't believe most AI managers look at speed and disregard steal when making those decisions.

My understanding of speed in relation to steals is it's the ability to get a jump, not how often they will go. Lance Haffner, back in the day used the same type of model in his baseball games. This would have someone like Mark Grace being able to duplicate IIRC his season going 13-3 stealing while making it so the user couldn't abuse the high success rate by "over running" Grace.

I guess one can parse the words from the definition "Players with a high rating in Speed are more of a threat to steal bases" into more attempts. I would parse it to say those players are more of a threat because they are able to get a jump. Note the speed definition doesn't mention a player's success rate, but why should it? Success is determined by the steal rating. In my league I ran a filter and sorted for >= 7speed/ <= 5 steal (there was no one with an 8/5 split) and the highest SBA for these players was 21. If these guys started all 162 games they're running once every 7.7 games. The success rates of these players was 62% down to 29%. What I don't know is how many of these were busted hit and runs or straight steal attempts? There weren't many players league wide with this type of high speed low(ish) steal rating, so sample size is very small.

I'll post a screen and yes lower speed guys are definitely running less as expected. My league is at the point teams have played approx 140 games to give context to the games played column. Yeah, high speed/low steal can hurt. I don't think that's ever been in doubt. However saying a high speed/low steal devalues a player is a bit of a stretch if said player has good hitting or fielding skills. It is, as admitted, a small sample and confined to the settings of my league. In that context the assertion these type of players are going to run as much as players like Tim Raines, Lou Brock, or Rickey Henderson are not true.

[damientheomen3]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

Speed used to influence infield hits and also played a small role in EBH that were not homeruns.

This is old info, like OOTP 6.5 days

But I have a feeling that has carried over into the new engine.
My anecdotal evidence is that speed does help players get a few more hits and also more doubles and triples.

To this point, adding to a player's speed in the editor does change their ratio of doubles to triples (I believe it only affects the ratio, it doesn't add any more total doubles/triples to the equation), but does not affect the player's projected batting average.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by atmospherecw

I disagree on the importance of speed in determining whether a player will be successful at stealing bases. I mean factors as the pitcher's quickness to the plate, the catcher's arm strength, and the runner's instincts, also play a role.

In the concrete case, the manager is more likely to send Player B on steal attempts, because he has a higher steal rating of 8, compared to Player A's steal rating of 5.

Ultimately, I wanna say it's up to the manager to decide who to send on steal attempts. The manager will need to weigh a number of factors, including the player's speed, steal rating, the situation in the game, and the opposing pitcher and catcher.

I didn't say speed determines success. I said speed is the ability to get a jump. Success is determined by the players "steal" rating/ability, and of course that is in conjunction with the pitcher's hold and catcher's arm etc.

Some were arguing high speed with low steal was a recipe for disaster because the speed would be having them attempt steals at a "Tim Raines" level. IE a high speed rating means more steal attempts. My post disagreed and mentioned, as you have, that the manager is the one that decides on steal attempts. And yes the AI manager should send a low speed/ high steal player over a high speed/ low steal player, and for the most part I think they do(though individual manager preferences hopefully means some variance within reason, ie "never say never" when it comes to baseball). Along with them taking into account the pitcher's and catcher's abilities too. I figured that was already understood and didn't need to be mentioned as I was only posting to refute "speed equals attempts".

There is nothing in your post I disagree with other than you seeming to think my post advocated speed determines player success at stealing bases.

[Humboldt KA]

I trust the ratings, not the stats, until the ratings are recalculated after the season. (I have the idea that--besides minor variations at any time--the main re-calc happens on Jan.1, but IDR where I got that. Someone please say if that's wrong.)

As for the team as a whole (starting as 1919 NY Giants) as a whole, it was my impression that the team's collective ratings improved markedly from 1919 to 1920 and again from 1920 to 1921, as did the team's W/L. The next 2 years' might have had even better ratings, but without an obvious gross difference and lacking a definitive metric it is hard to say. 1922's W/L was exactly the same, 1923 2 games worse.

And obviously I'm leaving out changes in the rest of the league. Relative strength changes very little over those years, so I'm supposing that absolute strength of the league as a whole was pretty stable.
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