PT is becoming unplayable

[pastorjoeboggs]

I really want to enjoy PT. I have enjoyed it the last several years even with the whales making some missions all but impossible for F2P players.

This year, though...

We have fewer missions, which isn't necessarily a problem. Except when an F2P player looks at the card shop for a three week old mission and sees that s/he'll need almost 200k points to get three cards to finish it. Or when a new set drops and is over 20k to complete a mission for which the reward is...a 79 rated Chris Archer.

Add to that the fact that the last 7-10 diamond cards I've opened in packs (from both regular and historical packs) have either been duplicates or cards that have no mission value. In dozens of packs, I have pulled exactly zero gold or diamond cards associated with the June Gems, the ASG, or this week's sets. But I have a crap ton of duplicate live cards!

Oh, and none of this would be nearly as frustrating if it weren't for another problem pointed out repeatedly by others - I'm sitting on 45k+ of useless combinator cards.

Why on earth would I buy next year's game if I get halfway through the season and find myself stuck in the middling Gold level with no realistic chance of advancing or falling back?

[LeeD]

Don't forget the part where new missions...like today's...require four or more new-release cards so that it's impossible to pre-plan and pre-purchase.

[HRBaker]

From this point (All-Star game) till March it's all about the whales. F2Per's can make a mad dash to Gold/Diamond in the beginning, but lose traction as the AS game approaches - and fall behind from July to March. At this point, all four of my team rosters are 90+ OVR but treading water in Bronze.

I certainly understand the business side of the game, but I'm gobsmacked as to why a secondary "tier level league" can't be added to keep F2Pers involved longer. I posted before about Gold-Silver-Bronze leagues that allow only cards at that level and below, and teams that have spent zero on PT points. Yes, I know, the company wouldn't make anything off such a structure - but maybe 5,000 teams that quit playing after July would remain active well into the Winter, and word would get out that PT is even fun for F2Per's.

But alas, few listen and even fewer care. Easier to just accept PT is a March to July game for F2Per's and move on to something else after July. I still love the classic game, and that's where I'm at now.

[bailey]

Originally Posted by pastorjoeboggs

Why on earth would I buy next year's game if I get halfway through the season and find myself stuck in the middling Gold level with no realistic chance of advancing or falling back?

So, what would make you happy enough about PT to buy the game again?

EDIT: I mean what level of achievement would make you happy about PT as it is. Not asking about changes to the game you would like to see.

[LeeD]

Originally Posted by HRBaker

From this point (All-Star game) till March it's all about the whales. F2Per's can make a mad dash to Gold/Diamond in the beginning, but lose traction as the AS game approaches - and fall behind from July to March. At this point, all four of my team rosters are 90+ OVR but treading water in Bronze.

I certainly understand the business side of the game, but I'm gobsmacked as to why a secondary "tier level league" can't be added to keep F2Pers involved longer. I posted before about Gold-Silver-Bronze leagues that allow only cards at that level and below, and teams that have spent zero on PT points. Yes, I know, the company wouldn't make anything off such a structure - but maybe 5,000 teams that quit playing after July would remain active well into the Winter, and word would get out that PT is even fun for F2Per's.

But alas, few listen and even fewer care. Easier to just accept PT is a March to July game for F2Per's and move on to something else after July. I still love the classic game, and that's where I'm at now.

I dunno. I agree with your overall assessment, but I do better than Bronze. My #1 and #3 teams are still in Gold despite being largely ignored for the last six weeks. I set them up for the week and only check in to collect rewards. #4 is my new team, which is in Silver this week and leading the division. Anxiously awaiting the next Negro League set, as I have every Set 3 card except Satchel and that other shortstop. Also clinging to a shot at PTCS with enough 2-8 finishes to qualify as of now. The falloff is inevitable at some point, but I managed to keep at least one team in Diamond throughout last year and might do it again. We'll see. It's not like it costs me anything.

[pastorjoeboggs]

Originally Posted by bailey

So, what would make you happy enough about PT to buy the game again?

EDIT: I mean what level of achievement would make you happy about PT as it is. Not asking about changes to the game you would like to see.

That's the thing - it's not just about achievement in terms of reaching Diamond or Perfect League. I don't mind being in a lower level league if there is still something to play for.

When all the missions are tens of thousands of PP to complete, and 5/6 of every pack drop seems to be a duplicate in spite of the fact that there are literally hundreds of cards (of all levels) that I don't have, there's not much reason for me to pay attention.

If I have a *great* season, I might earn 10k points in a week. Which means I'm only 20 great weeks away from completing the June Stars mission...

The developers seem to have geared everything towards combinators and pay to play teams and left nothing for F2P.

(Incidentally, a sell price cap system on diamond and below would go a long way towards leveling the playing field.)

[BusterKing]

And Markus claimed when he first started PT that everyone would have fun and you didn't need to spend any money. Well that ship has sailed.

[pastorjoeboggs]

Twitch drop packs today: 10

60 total cards.
zero gold
zero diamond
zero perfect
56 duplicates
3 live non-duplicate

This is fun.

[LeeD]

Originally Posted by pastorjoeboggs

That's the thing - it's not just about achievement in terms of reaching Diamond or Perfect League. I don't mind being in a lower level league if there is still something to play for.

When all the missions are tens of thousands of PP to complete, and 5/6 of every pack drop seems to be a duplicate in spite of the fact that there are literally hundreds of cards (of all levels) that I don't have, there's not much reason for me to pay attention.

If I have a *great* season, I might earn 10k points in a week. Which means I'm only 20 great weeks away from completing the June Stars mission...

The developers seem to have geared everything towards combinators and pay to play teams and left nothing for F2P.

(Incidentally, a sell price cap system on diamond and below would go a long way towards leveling the playing field.)

The trick to FTP (other than finding ways to collect cards and PP, which includes tournaments, live spec, and Twitch drops in addition to achievement rewards) is laser focus on one mission or mission set. If you've got a card that isn't helping on the active roster and isn't part of your current target mission or set then you sell that card. Also, sell now on any brand-spanking-new card that's massively over-priced because of a new mission that was just added. In both of these cases, you'll be able to buy back later at a lower (usually much lower) price if you find that you need it because your goals have changed.

[pother]

Some ideas that could help equalize things between whales and either free or lower paying players.

1. Leave the existing PT format as it is, with it representing a pure & hyper competitive format. Best team wins, no restrictions.

2. Open up full seasons for perfect draft, with some modifications to it. In addition to the initial draft of the primary lineup, players get the ability to draft 1 new player each day of the week. Team composition is limited by points, or the draft picks are curated to try and avoid someone accidentally getting top pulls every day and dominating without having to even try.

3. Restricted roster formats for tournaments are expanded to also have full seasons. Players pull from their personal card collections, but the restricted roster format improves the opportunities for theme teams, and completely different approaches. Having seasons/leagues allows players to track stats over time and iterate on their rosters.

4. Limited run themed seasons that mash up the two above ideas. As an example, a season themed around the home run derby. Teams are capped by points, and players start the season by drafting hero cards from either the current home run derby, or historicals. Players are limited to 1 or 2 hero cards, and fill in the rest of their team within the point cap. Dish out rewards at the end of the season based on how well someone performs, maybe granting some players those hero cards as permanent parts of their collections. The rewards could even be tied to the theme. In the case of the home run derby, teams could earn rewards if they achieve a certain number of home runs across the season.

[biggerme]

Originally Posted by BusterKing

And Markus claimed when he first started PT that everyone would have fun and you didn't need to spend any money. Well that ship has sailed.

Yeah, just launched MTG:Arena to have some other type of fun

[bailey]

I play to build a team that competes in diamond and has a chance to reach the perfect league. I find it fun, challenging, and even relaxing. I don't expect to own bleeding edge cards the day they are released or even a month later. It may be more difficult this year because the number of packs I can easily earn is about 80-90/week** compared to 200/week** last year. If players need some kind of immediate gratification without putting in a fair bit of effort to learn the game, then PT is not for them.

**not counting packs from missions. I'm leaving plenty of packs on the table by not playing perfect draft or live card quicks.

[Kushiel]

Originally Posted by bailey

I play to build a team that competes in diamond and has a chance to reach the perfect league. I find it fun, challenging, and even relaxing. I don't expect to own bleeding edge cards the day they are released or even a month later. It may be more difficult this year because the number of packs I can easily earn is about 80-.90/week** compared to 200/week** last year. If players need some kind of immediate gratification without putting in a fair bit of effort to learn the game, then PT is not for them.

**not counting packs from missions. I'm leaving plenty of packs on the table by not playing perfect draft or live card quicks.

You are one of the most knowledgeable people here. However, very few others are content to buy a game in March and putter around all year to finally be pretty good in October. That works for you, and I appreciate that. Most people want to see a little ray of light here and there though. Since the transfer of power, that ray of light has shrunk to a mere glimmer.

My number one team has always been my most fun to play. I spend a little money on the Colts during sales, I watch streams with them. I quit tournaments this year because of the BS they keep pulling in that part of the game. Now because of all they have done to alienate me and others with small pockets, I have more fun with my NRM team that only uses players with those initials for their last name. This team is fun being limited by me, not them.

I am honestly at the crossroads of dropping OOTP altogether after this year. I hope I see that tiny glimmer of light begin to grow again as do many others. Else someday there may be only one league in PT and everybody can be in that Perfect Level buying players left and right to buy that pennant. Just like a league full of Steinbrenners. The Devs can make all kinds of fantasy cards at astronomical prices to be sold only on the AH. No packs will even be needed. All the Charlie Finleys with cool ideas but little or no money will be gone.

[ChessSafari]

Originally Posted by pastorjoeboggs

When all the missions are tens of thousands of PP to complete, and 5/6 of every pack drop seems to be a duplicate in spite of the fact that there are literally hundreds of cards (of all levels) that I don't have, there's not much reason for me to pay attention.

My sentiment exactly, Pastor!

[biggerme]

Originally Posted by pastorjoeboggs

Twitch drop packs today: 10

60 total cards.
zero gold
zero diamond
zero perfect
56 duplicates
3 live non-duplicate

This is fun.

Compared to initial grind where only way to earn Perfect Points was via League play achievements, completing Missions or finding affordable cards was on another level of challenging

[Fabtron7]

Originally Posted by pastorjoeboggs

Twitch drop packs today: 10

60 total cards.
zero gold
zero diamond
zero perfect
56 duplicates
3 live non-duplicate

This is fun.

It's really only 50 cards because every pack has one guaranteed bronze, so those cards will never be anything but a bronze. According to the posted odd you're supposed to get a gold every 50 cards, and if you open a ton of packs and count them all it'll line up... but for the most part that seems like a pretty standard 10 pack rip.

[pastorjoeboggs]

Originally Posted by Fabtron7

It's really only 50 cards because every pack has one guaranteed bronze, so those cards will never be anything but a bronze. According to the posted odd you're supposed to get a gold every 50 cards, and if you open a ton of packs and count them all it'll line up... but for the most part that seems like a pretty standard 10 pack rip.

56 duplicates is standard?

That's the problem.

[Fabtron7]

Originally Posted by pastorjoeboggs

56 duplicates is standard?

That's the problem.

I guess it depends on how many cards you're already holding, if you have a ton of cards (especially live cards) you're obviously going to be pulling dupes all the time. A 10 pack run is so small though that you can't really use it as an accurate sample size because you also hear plenty of stories about "the guy" that ripped ten drop packs and pulled two perfects... The swings swing both ways.

But yeah the cold swings can be maddening.

[Kushiel]

The problem is that it appears to be that new TWIPT cards have very strictly metered drops for the first couple of weeks. Unless you buy those Spotlight Packs.

[Fabtron7]

It always feels that way when you're not pulling them but then you go into the "fire pull" channel on discord and see other people pulling them like crazy on a Thursday afternoon. Sadly the random number generator can be a cruel mistress.