Gambo and T_Wil1 Photopack

[Patsy Tebeau]

Here's the version from the book, it provides a fuller shot of him in the uniform

[prewinter]

Originally Posted by cinemaodyssey

It is from the 12/18/1908 edition of The Lynn Daily Item

Thank you!

[prewinter]

Originally Posted by Patsy Tebeau

Here's the version from the book, it provides a fuller shot of him in the uniform

Awesome! Thank you!

[Chickazoola]

Hey, so some fun news - I was interviewed by Zack Meisel about finally finding a photo of Shorty Gallagher. It's primarily about Randy Kulas and his persistence in trying to find photos of every Cleveland AL player in their history and Shorty was the last one left. Article does a good job of highlighting this strange obsession we all share.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/704...lagher-search/

[Patsy Tebeau]

This photo was randomly placed by Dorsey Riddlemoser's gravestone one day months ago. Perhaps it may provide a new shot of him if someone can properly find him in here. BR lists his final pro game in the minors as being in 1903 so I think this team was likely independent/semipro or something.

[Cusick]

The photo below comes from the Richmond Times of March 14, 1906. In comparing this with the Frederick team photo above, it's my opinion that Riddlemoser is the sixth player from the left in the team photo. Anyone have any different thoughts?

[Dto7]

Here's Riddlemoser, player #6, top row, trying out for the 1906 Richmond Lawmakers, from the 4/26/1906 Richmond Times.

[Dto7]

Originally Posted by Cusick

The photo below comes from the Richmond Times of March 14, 1906. In comparing this with the Frederick team photo above, it's my opinion that Riddlemoser is the sixth player from the left in the team photo. Anyone have any different thoughts?

I can't find Riddlemoser name on the 1909 Frederick baseball team in the newspapers. List of players I found below, including the photo of the team's star pitcher, Charley Miller.

[Patsy Tebeau]

Here is a picture of the photo on the grave. Someone on Facebook said they think he is the guy second from the left and zoomed in on him. I have no idea though. I have no idea who put it there or if it's still there since I don't live near there. It would be really random to place a random unrelated picture there unless maybe he was with the team at one point and they just put a picture from the wrong year there by mistake or something.

[Dto7]

A better photo of the 1909 team. Taken from the site below.

http://www.mountolivethistory.com/st...ls-and-strikes.

[Patsy Tebeau]

Looks like the guy they thought was him is the second one in the bottom row of that picture or maybe the second to last in the top row. I don't think it's Riddlemoser.

[Dto7]

Originally Posted by Patsy Tebeau

Looks like the guy they thought was him is the second one in the bottom row of that picture or maybe the second to last in the top row. I don't think it's Riddlemoser.

As I said before, Riddlemoser was never mentioned in the 1909 newspapers as a member of this team, or any other team. He was never on the team.

I talked to Vincent T. Ciaramella, who wrote the article on Riddlemoser for SABR. He put the photo on the headstone, not knowing but hoping Riddlemoser was in it. So we can put it to rest that Riddlemoser is not in the photo. The photos were taken after July 25, 1909, after Paul Musser joined the team, and he's the first man in the top row of 2nd Frederick's photo.

[Cusick]

Thanks, dto7, for doing the extra homework on the Riddlemoser case.

[Disneyman87]

Has anyone been able to find any Shawn boskie on the Mariners. He pitched two games for them in 1994. He's the last player I need.

[Patsy Tebeau]

Originally Posted by Dto7

As I said before, Riddlemoser was never mentioned in the 1909 newspapers as a member of this team, or any other team. He was never on the team.

I talked to Vincent T. Ciaramella, who wrote the article on Riddlemoser for SABR. He put the photo on the headstone, not knowing but hoping Riddlemoser was in it. So we can put it to rest that Riddlemoser is not in the photo. The photos were taken after July 25, 1909, after Paul Musser joined the team, and he's the first man in the top row of 2nd Frederick's photo.

Thanks for solving this mystery!! I appreciate the time and effort

[prewinter]

Originally Posted by Chickazoola

Missing photo located of three players on the missing player index:

Eddie Sales was an infielder for the 1890 Pittsburgh Alleghenys.

Eddie Green was a pitcher for the 1890 Philadelphia Athletics

John Firth was a pitcher for the 1884 Richmond Virginians.

All three men are pictured in the 1885 Williamsport Baseball Club cabinet photo that was auctioned on Lelands.com

I'm almost certain John Firth was not the player with Williamsport in 1885. The Williamsport Daily Gazette and Bulletin reported that the club signed Firth "of last year's Millvilles [NJ]" on Feb 3, 1885 (pg. 5). Later that season, the Meridan Daily Republican named the player with the Williamsport club as George Firth. That would be George W. Firth, from Philadelphia, who was mistakenly reported as killed in 1883 in Iowa. As I look at the records on Baseball-Reference, the two players are confused in several instances.

(Daly was Tom Daly, who would go on to play 17 seasons in the majors, with his last MLB season being 1903.)

So on the one hand, the player in the Williamsport composite is most likely not John Firth. On the other hand, I'm still trying to figure out whether the pitcher for Richmond in 1884 was John or George, or some other yet-to-be identified Firth. My money is on John, but I haven't found the smoking gun yet in the records of the time.

For what it is worth, John Firth seems to have been with Williamsport in 1886.

[cinemaodyssey]

I've tracked down a nice playing-era photo of Snyder, who was a starter for the 1876 Cincinnati team. He lived and worked in Camden, New Jersey for most of his life and was featured in a well-written retrospective in the 5/7/1920 edition of the Camden Evening Courier.

[Chickazoola]

Originally Posted by prewinter

I'm almost certain John Firth was not the player with Williamsport in 1885. The Williamsport Daily Gazette and Bulletin reported that the club signed Firth "of last year's Millvilles [NJ]" on Feb 3, 1885 (pg. 5). Later that season, the Meridan Daily Republican named the player with the Williamsport club as George Firth. That would be George W. Firth, from Philadelphia, who was mistakenly reported as killed in 1883 in Iowa. As I look at the records on Baseball-Reference, the two players are confused in several instances.

(Daly was Tom Daly, who would go on to play 17 seasons in the majors, with his last MLB season being 1903.)

So on the one hand, the player in the Williamsport composite is most likely not John Firth. On the other hand, I'm still trying to figure out whether the pitcher for Richmond in 1884 was John or George, or some other yet-to-be identified Firth. My money is on John, but I haven't found the smoking gun yet in the records of the time.

For what it is worth, John Firth seems to have been with Williamsport in 1886.

This was a very early ID for me, never looked at Firth's case before.

Here's what I've tracked down for the two Firths:

just found some box scores that confirm George Firth is most likely not the guy - on August 14 and 16, 1884 he was pitching for Millville, NJ club - while the Richmond player made his one appearance on August 15. The one catch is that the Richmond game was in Brooklyn - so plausible to have gone from Millville to Brooklyn for the day to pitch. But there is good coverage of the Millville club in the Bridgeton, NJ newspaper and I figure they would*have mentioned that.
Here's George Firth's career so farGeorge Firth
1883 Pottsville Anthracites
1883 Brooklyn ISAS
1883 Millvilles NJ
1884 Chester
1884 Millvilles
1884 August 14, 16 - appears for Millville vs. Lancaster
1884 Wyoming PA (Philadelphia semipro)
1885 Williamsport
1885 Meridens
1885 Millvilles
In April 1885, he was reported to have been murdered in Marshalltown, Iowa (possibly by Cap Anson, who can say?), but later reports are that it was his brother Elmer who died.

As for John Firth, here is best I can do tracking his career:
John Firth, pitcher
September - November 1884 Norfolks
April - June 1885 Wilmington / Atlantic Citys
July 1885 Portsmouth
July - September 1885 Portsmouth Old Soldiers Home Nationals *
May - June 1886 Saratogas
June - July 1886 Norfolk
July 1886 blacklisted for jumping SaratogasAugust 1886 Saratogas**
April 1887 reinstated
1888 Ashland

I suspect John Firth ID is probably correct, I checked with the Biographical Committee and the ID dates back to 1997 (he used to be listed as Ted Firth) and it was done by some reputable folks. Would still like to firm up the ID though.

But I figure it's about 95% that George Firth was not the big leaguer - so we're back to a missing photo for Firth 1884 Richmond.

[prewinter]

Originally Posted by Chickazoola

This was a very early ID for me, never looked at Firth's case before.

Here's what I've tracked down for the two Firths:

...

I suspect John Firth ID is probably correct, I checked with the Biographical Committee and the ID dates back to 1997 (he used to be listed as Ted Firth) and it was done by some reputable folks. Would still like to firm up the ID though.

But I figure it's about 95% that George Firth was not the big leaguer - so we're back to a missing photo for Firth 1884 Richmond.

You've got pretty much what I've found, although I was not able to confirm which Firth was in Brooklyn in 1883. Where did you find that?

I found an article from the Meriden Republican in 1885 confirming it was George's brother murdered in Iowa.

John Firth was with Lowell in 1876, and finished the year with the Detroit Aetnas. He joined Rhode Island in late 1877 (currently attributed to George), and played with Lowell again in 1879 (and again in 1882?). He seems to have been with the Lowell Fire Department all that time until 1884. There's a note in the Lowell Daily Sun on June 14, 1884 that he was discharged at his request.

He joined the Dayton club in May 1884 (Dayton Herald), and his last box score with Dayton that I found was on July 6. The Cincinnati Enquirer reported on July 27th that he was playing in the Iron and Oil League, having used the pretext that his mother was ill to leave the Dayton club. (As an aside, I've had a hard time finding box scores for the Iron and Oil League games from 1884.) And then I can't find anything until the next spring with Portsmouth.

Agree it is likely him who played that game with Richmond. No absolute proof.

And I have no idea where the first name Ted (or Teddy) came from.

[Chickazoola]

June 26, 1883 News of Cumberland County (Bridgeton, NJ)

"George Firth, the pitcher for the Millville Base Ball Club, will arrive this evening. He has been with from the Brooklyn team and will play our boys the months of July and August."

September 10, 1883 - same paper has note that Firth and Riley have signed with the August Flowers for rest of season.

As for John Firth, hadn't seen the early part of his career, but yes he was with Dayton through July 1884 alongside Wesley Blogg - who ended up jumping to Johnstown of the Iron and Oil League in late June along with Charlie Bohn also of the Daytons. I have a July 24, 1884 note from the Johnstown paper that has Firth in the lineup for Johnstown. The Johnstown club falls apart in August and Blogg ends up in Norfolk in late August and Firth was one of the players he enlisted.


Blogg played with Lowell way back in 1876, so undoubtedly Firth and him were old pals.

Also, that late 1884 Norfolk team is one of my white whales, since I am absolutely convinced that the Willis who was playing for them is the mysterious Willis who played for Washington and Kansas City earlier in the year

So, we know the George Firth was in Millville on August 14 and August 16, so possible that he went to Brooklyn for a spot start.

And John Firth in 1884 was with Dayton, Johnstown and Norfolk. But there is a gap from late July to early September where we can't place Firth. So can't prove or disprove at this point.