put outs not totalling correctly

bogieman · 06-26-2006, 08:51 PM

I have not been able to pin point as to what pbp is causing the problem but not all the put outs are being correctly credited during games. I have run many seasons and each team will be short. This usually happens to at least one team by the end of the first week.

I am using a patched version.

bogieman · 06-30-2006, 06:22 PM

I followed one team and on the 6th game the total ***ists for the team was off. I was keeping my own score card and double checked this against the log and everything matches up yet in this case the game had an extra ***ist. There were three plays that were new in the game a 2-4 SAC, 4-6-3 DP and a runner thrown out 9-5.

I believe the DP is the problem as the SS that have the extra ***ist.

jbsnadb · 06-30-2006, 09:52 PM

Man, that is one STRICT curse filter!

bogieman · 07-01-2006, 02:32 PM

I've given up trying to follow the pbp and log. I haven't come across the put out error but the assists are changing every game now. I had a game where all the plays were run of the mill 4-3, 6-3, 5-3 outs. When I went to check player totals they were off again. How can the game do any fielding adjustments for the next year and get them right if they are not being totalled correctly to start with.

The other frustration I have had is that the pbp and log do not give the actual scoring play in certain situations. Now the pbp I can understand as to it is simulating the broadcast of the game. But the last line could be the actual scoring play(s). The log never shows the caught stealing as a CS 2-5, just <Player> caught stealing 3rd, The same holds true for runners thrown out by the outfield. In the log the game also has a problem showing UA put outs: Fielders Choice at 2nd, 6-0 (Groundball, 6M), you will get the same 3-0 for UA 3 put out. For sacrifices all you get is:1-1: Sac Bunt - play at first, batter OUT!; what was it 1-3, 2-3, 1-4, 2-4, 3-4?

I would like to see a line with what is the official scorer's play, in the log at least. The agrument will be is it really needed. If the game was adding everything correctly no. Since it isn't I would think this would be essential in trying to reconcile player and team stats.

I know that probably 90+% of the plays are being recorded in the log. I think that it should be 100%.

bogieman · 07-02-2006, 01:11 AM

Is this being addressed through other issues people have brought up?

bogieman · 07-04-2006, 01:22 AM

I have decided to take a second stab at which plays are not scoring correctly for fielding stats. I have come across a couple of very interesting situations.

The first is that whenever there is a error in the outfield made by an infielder the batter ends up on 2nd, the batter is credited with a hit and the fielder an error for letting the batter get to 2nd base. The log totals for the half inning will show a hit as well as the box score and player totals, but here is what the log will show:

Batting: RHB J. Sandoral 0-0: Ball
1-0: Ball
2-0: SINGLE (Line Drive, 6M)
Batting: RHB C. Terry 0-0: Called Strike
0-1: SINGLE (Line Drive, 56D)
J. Sandoral to second
Batting: RHB B. Kerridge 0-0: Called Strike
J. Sandoral steals 3rd base
0-1: Ball
1-1: Foul Ball
1-2: Ball
2-2: Ball
3-2: Fly out, F9 (Flyball, 89M)
Runner from 3rd tags up, SCORES, no throw
Batting: RHB J. Hiatt 0-0: Called Strike
Error in OF, E4
C. Terry to third
Batting: RHB T. Ezpinoza 0-0: Ball
1-0: Swinging Strike
1-1: Foul Ball
1-2: Ball
2-2: Ball
3-2: DOUBLE (Flyball, 78XD)
C. Terry scores
J. Hiatt scores
Batting: RHB V. Serenil 0-0: Ball
1-0: SINGLE (Groundball, 56D)
T. Ezpinoza to third
Batting: RHB A. Machin 0-0: Bunted foul
0-1: Sac Bunt - play at first, batter safe!
V. Serenil to second
Batting: LHB G. Miner 0-0: Called Strike
0-1: Ball
1-1: Fielders Choice at 2nd, 4-6 (Groundball, 4)
T. Ezpinoza scores
V. Serenil to third
Pinch Hitting: RHB R. Kunz 0-0: Called Strike
0-1: Ball
1-1: Ball
2-1: Foul Ball
2-2: Foul Ball
2-2: Fly out, F7 (Line Drive, 7S).
Top of the 5th over - 4 runs, 6 hits, 1 errors, 2 left on base.

As you can see 6 hits reported in the totals but there are only 4 hits in log. You get one for the outfield error and the 2nd hit not showing is the sac bunt where the batter gets to 1st base. The sac bunt is being scored correctly as a hit the log is just showing incomplete info.

This last is a scoring error as far as I can make out.

Batting: LHB B. Gully 0-0: Foul Ball
0-1: Foul Ball
0-2: Ball
1-2: SINGLE (Groundball, 34)
N. Sturdivant to third
Runner from 3rd tries for Home, throw and OUT!

This play was scored as a 4-2 putout. Unfortunately I don't have the pbp but I am remember the hit going to the right fielder which should make it a 9-4-2 assuming the right fielder hit the cutoff man or 9-2 if not.

Zeyes · 07-04-2006, 04:08 AM

nvm, I misread.

bogieman · 07-04-2006, 03:03 PM

This play:

Batting: RHB J. Hiatt0-0: Ball
1-0: Called Strike
1-1: Called Strike
Error in OF, E6

and this one:

Batting: RHB J. Hiatt0-0: Called Strike
Error in OF, E4
C. Terry to third

both show the infielder getting charged for an error. Both of these plays the batter registered a hit. There were errors charged on the plays but the errors were charged to the left fielder and right fielder respectively not the infielders.

bogieman · 07-04-2006, 07:27 PM

Top of the 3rd - Santa Ana Jets batting - Pitching for Minneapolis Mob : RHP S. Kim
Batting: LHB G. Miner 0-0: Called Strike
0-1: Ball
1-1: Foul Ball
1-2: SINGLE (Line Drive, 8RS)
Batting: LHB E. Orozco 0-0: Ball
1-0: Fly out, F7 (Flyball, 7M)
Batting: RHB J. Hiatt 0-0: Called Strike
0-1: Ball
1-1: Foul Ball
1-2: Ball
2-2: Foul Ball
2-2: Fly out, F3 (Line Drive, 3)
Batting: RHB B. Kerridge Pickoff Throw to First - Error!
G. Miner to second
0-0: Ball
1-0: Called Strike
1-1: Swinging Strike
1-2: Ground out 4-3 (Groundball, 34)
Top of the 3rd over - 0 runs, 1 hits, 0 errors, 1 left on base.

again the log is not is sync with the game as the committed error shows in the box score and the player stats.

I have also have found situations where a player gets 2 at bats when an error occurs.

One happens when the player gets a hit and then there is a throwing error. This is different from the earlier problem that I found. The previous case the hit wasn't recorded in the log, only the error. In this case both the error and the hit are recorded in the log and the player gets 2 at bats. This has to be a throwing error after a hit.

Batting: RHB F. Walker 0-0: Ball
1-0: Called Strike
1-1: Foul Ball
1-2: SINGLE (Groundball, 4)
D. Sandler scores
S. Kim to second
Throwing error, E4
S. Kim scores
F. Walker to third

Another is if a fielder drops an infield fly. I like this example because it was a line drive to the catcher.

Batting: RHB D. Curling Ball
1-0: Reached on error, E2 (Line Drive, 23)
W. Ranagan to third

These type of plays have happened 6 times, 4 with a throwing error after a hit and 2 with a dropped ball on an infield fly. The batters all have had an extra at bat for each occurrance. These are the only extra at bats that I have come across while playing.

The dropped fly problem is only for infield flies. I have found an error committed by the outfield by dropping a fly and the game handled it correctly.

bogieman · 07-05-2006, 01:26 AM

I see that people are looking at this thread, but I am not getting any feedback whether what I am is doing is worth my time. Are these problems being addressed in the 1.02 wip patch or later? Am I giving enough detail or am I blowing smoke?

btw, I found a lost putout situation which was my original goal. I believe this has been reported, on a bunt foul for a third strike the catcher is not getting credit for the putout.

10.10 (a) Automatic putouts shall be credited to the catcher as follows:
...
(2) When the batter is called out for bunting foul for his third strike:
exception 10.17 (a) (4)

10.17 (a) A strikeout shall be scored by a third strike caught by a catcher:
...
(4) A batter bunts foul on a third strike. EXCEPTION: if such
bunt on third strike results in a foul fly caught by any fielder,
do not score a strikeout. Credit the fielder who catches the
foul fly with a putout.

Zeyes · 07-05-2006, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bogieman

I see that people are looking at this thread, but I am not getting any feedback whether what I am is doing is worth my time. Are these problems being addressed in the 1.02 wip patch or later? Am I giving enough detail or am I blowing smoke?

Can't speak for anybody else, but I'm finding it a bit difficult to follow along with your posts sometimes due to lack of context...would it be possible for you to post the boxscores as well where appropriate (screenshot or attaching the HTML), so people can see for themselves exactly how they differ from the game log descriptions?

bogieman · 07-05-2006, 08:45 PM

Catcher not getting credit for putout and bunted foul 3rd strike. Six strikeouts catcher only has 5 putouts. Happened of the first game of the season.

team stats

player stats

strikeouts 1-3

strikeouts 4-6

bogieman · 07-05-2006, 09:53 PM

Player steals second bad throw E2 runner goes to third. Batter gets charged with at bat and later triples, box score show 1-2.

M's rule · 07-06-2006, 12:33 AM

bogieman, I have been following along, trying to figure out how I could address these problems in TT. I guess I've felt, as Zeyes put it, as though I didn't have a complete picture of any single problem.

Your latest two posts are excellent information. Whenever you can provide this much detail, the problem is a lot easier to understand.

I'll work on distilling some of your earlier posts into issues that I can put into TT. Don't expect a lot of headway before the upcoming patch, but I hope we'll make progress on these glitches for the next one.

f.montoya · 07-06-2006, 12:51 AM

It might also be useful to Markus if he could get his hands on your .dat files. Do you think you could zip them and post them somewhere? Marc Duffy can give you FTP access to do so, if you don't have a place to post them. Also, you can email them to Markus directly as well.

bogieman · 07-06-2006, 11:49 PM

Unfortunately I don't keep the leagues. I have a league that I saved and tweak the settings to see what happens. This all started when I tried to get realistic fielding averages for 1871 season. I simmed the season over and over adjusting the players fielding ratings as well other settings. If you you want a boat load of fielding errors guaranteed to have the problems I have discussed show up within a game or two this is all you have to do.

1. create the simplest universe possible, 1 league, 1 division, 2 teams, turn all the extras off, 20 player limit, 3 pitchers, etc
2. export rosters
3. rename the roster file from a .txt to .csv
4. open roster file in Excel
5. zero out all the fielding ratings the last 18 columns
6. import the roster, don't need to rename back to .txt
7. setup team line ups, depth charts, pitching staffs
8. starting playing games

When I have done this I get a league fielding average just under .900. I have had teams as low as .850. This should produce at least 5 to 15 errors a game. I have seen as high as 24 errors in 1 game.

bogieman · 07-07-2006, 12:10 AM

It took me just 2 games to get these results, 8 errors in the game, 2 players with extra at bats, Moncibas and Hampton for Minneapolis. When looking through the log this what I found. If you add the at bats a walks you will notice that Moncibas and Hampton have 7 plate appearances and the batters before and after only have 6 or 5. There were no sacrifices or hit batters.

bogieman · 07-07-2006, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M's rule

I'll work on distilling some of your earlier posts into issues that I can put into TT. Don't expect a lot of headway before the upcoming patch, but I hope we'll make progress on these glitches for the next one.

I'm sorry this is ended up being actually 2 separate issues and is only remotely connected to the thread's title. I got totally off the subject and as I dug into the data I kept seeing more and more issues with the log.

The issues as I see it are:

1. 3rd strike fouls when bunting. The batter is out and strikeouts are recorded for the batter and pitcher but the catcher doesn't get a putout.

2. Batters are are picking up an extra at bat when certain fielding errors occur. Every situation where a batter has an extra at bat can be associated with a fielding error.

I have simmed a small league with 216 games and 755 fielding errors. I will be going through the box scores and logs cataloging the fielding errors. So far I have done 12 games and there is a definate pattern to the problem. And I am finding even more amonolies between the log and the box scores as well as some totally strange plays.

I also will be trying the new patch to see if it makes any difference. Who knows how things are connected, except Marcus of course.

TC Dale · 07-07-2006, 07:57 PM

Let us know post 1.02 patch how this is. This is still open, but let us know within a week or the thread is closed.

bogieman · 07-07-2006, 08:49 PM

Both issues are still 1.02.

06-26-2006, 08:51 PM	#1
bogieman Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 149	put outs not totalling correctly I have not been able to pin point as to what pbp is causing the problem but not all the put outs are being correctly credited during games. I have run many seasons and each team will be short. This usually happens to at least one team by the end of the first week. I am using a patched version.

06-30-2006, 09:52 PM	#3
jbsnadb All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,098	Man, that is one STRICT curse filter! __________________ "And as I wander with my music through the jungles of Despair, my kid will learn guitar and find a street corner somewhere. There he'll make the silence listen to the dream behind the voice, and show his minstrel Hamlet daddy that there only was one choice."

07-01-2006, 02:32 PM	#4
bogieman Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 149	given up I've given up trying to follow the pbp and log. I haven't come across the put out error but the assists are changing every game now. I had a game where all the plays were run of the mill 4-3, 6-3, 5-3 outs. When I went to check player totals they were off again. How can the game do any fielding adjustments for the next year and get them right if they are not being totalled correctly to start with. The other frustration I have had is that the pbp and log do not give the actual scoring play in certain situations. Now the pbp I can understand as to it is simulating the broadcast of the game. But the last line could be the actual scoring play(s). The log never shows the caught stealing as a CS 2-5, just <Player> caught stealing 3rd, The same holds true for runners thrown out by the outfield. In the log the game also has a problem showing UA put outs: Fielders Choice at 2nd, 6-0 (Groundball, 6M), you will get the same 3-0 for UA 3 put out. For sacrifices all you get is:1-1: Sac Bunt - play at first, batter OUT!; what was it 1-3, 2-3, 1-4, 2-4, 3-4? I would like to see a line with what is the official scorer's play, in the log at least. The agrument will be is it really needed. If the game was adding everything correctly no. Since it isn't I would think this would be essential in trying to reconcile player and team stats. I know that probably 90+% of the plays are being recorded in the log. I think that it should be 100%.

07-04-2006, 04:08 AM	#7
Zeyes All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 818	nvm, I misread. Last edited by Zeyes; 07-04-2006 at 04:12 AM.

07-04-2006, 07:27 PM	#9
bogieman Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 149	some more errors with errors Top of the 3rd - Santa Ana Jets batting - Pitching for Minneapolis Mob : RHP S. Kim Batting: LHB G. Miner 0-0: Called Strike 0-1: Ball 1-1: Foul Ball 1-2: SINGLE (Line Drive, 8RS) Batting: LHB E. Orozco 0-0: Ball 1-0: Fly out, F7 (Flyball, 7M) Batting: RHB J. Hiatt 0-0: Called Strike 0-1: Ball 1-1: Foul Ball 1-2: Ball 2-2: Foul Ball 2-2: Fly out, F3 (Line Drive, 3) Batting: RHB B. Kerridge Pickoff Throw to First - Error! G. Miner to second 0-0: Ball 1-0: Called Strike 1-1: Swinging Strike 1-2: Ground out 4-3 (Groundball, 34) Top of the 3rd over - 0 runs, 1 hits, 0 errors, 1 left on base. again the log is not is sync with the game as the committed error shows in the box score and the player stats. I have also have found situations where a player gets 2 at bats when an error occurs. One happens when the player gets a hit and then there is a throwing error. This is different from the earlier problem that I found. The previous case the hit wasn't recorded in the log, only the error. In this case both the error and the hit are recorded in the log and the player gets 2 at bats. This has to be a throwing error after a hit. Batting: RHB F. Walker 0-0: Ball 1-0: Called Strike 1-1: Foul Ball 1-2: SINGLE (Groundball, 4) D. Sandler scores S. Kim to second Throwing error, E4 S. Kim scores F. Walker to third Another is if a fielder drops an infield fly. I like this example because it was a line drive to the catcher. Batting: RHB D. Curling Ball 1-0: Reached on error, E2 (Line Drive, 23) W. Ranagan to third These type of plays have happened 6 times, 4 with a throwing error after a hit and 2 with a dropped ball on an infield fly. The batters all have had an extra at bat for each occurrance. These are the only extra at bats that I have come across while playing. The dropped fly problem is only for infield flies. I have found an error committed by the outfield by dropping a fly and the game handled it correctly.

06-30-2006, 06:22 PM	#2
bogieman Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 149	I followed one team and on the 6th game the total *ists for the team was off. I was keeping my own score card and double checked this against the log and everything matches up yet in this case the game had an extra ist. There were three plays that were new in the game a 2-4 SAC, 4-6-3 DP and a runner thrown out 9-5. I believe the DP is the problem as the SS that have the extra **ist.

07-02-2006, 01:11 AM	#5
bogieman Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 149	Is this being addressed through other issues people have brought up?

07-04-2006, 01:22 AM	#6
bogieman Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 149	I have decided to take a second stab at which plays are not scoring correctly for fielding stats. I have come across a couple of very interesting situations. The first is that whenever there is a error in the outfield made by an infielder the batter ends up on 2nd, the batter is credited with a hit and the fielder an error for letting the batter get to 2nd base. The log totals for the half inning will show a hit as well as the box score and player totals, but here is what the log will show: Batting: RHB J. Sandoral 0-0: Ball 1-0: Ball 2-0: SINGLE (Line Drive, 6M) Batting: RHB C. Terry 0-0: Called Strike 0-1: SINGLE (Line Drive, 56D) J. Sandoral to second Batting: RHB B. Kerridge 0-0: Called Strike J. Sandoral steals 3rd base 0-1: Ball 1-1: Foul Ball 1-2: Ball 2-2: Ball 3-2: Fly out, F9 (Flyball, 89M) Runner from 3rd tags up, SCORES, no throw Batting: RHB J. Hiatt 0-0: Called Strike Error in OF, E4 C. Terry to third Batting: RHB T. Ezpinoza 0-0: Ball 1-0: Swinging Strike 1-1: Foul Ball 1-2: Ball 2-2: Ball 3-2: DOUBLE (Flyball, 78XD) C. Terry scores J. Hiatt scores Batting: RHB V. Serenil 0-0: Ball 1-0: SINGLE (Groundball, 56D) T. Ezpinoza to third Batting: RHB A. Machin 0-0: Bunted foul 0-1: *Sac Bunt - play at first, batter safe!* V. Serenil to second Batting: LHB G. Miner 0-0: Called Strike 0-1: Ball 1-1: Fielders Choice at 2nd, 4-6 (Groundball, 4) T. Ezpinoza scores V. Serenil to third Pinch Hitting: RHB R. Kunz 0-0: Called Strike 0-1: Ball 1-1: Ball 2-1: Foul Ball 2-2: Foul Ball 2-2: Fly out, F7 (Line Drive, 7S). Top of the 5th over - 4 runs, 6 hits, 1 errors, 2 left on base. As you can see 6 hits reported in the totals but there are only 4 hits in log. You get one for the outfield error and the 2nd hit not showing is the sac bunt where the batter gets to 1st base. The sac bunt is being scored correctly as a hit the log is just showing incomplete info. This last is a scoring error as far as I can make out. Batting: LHB B. Gully 0-0: Foul Ball 0-1: Foul Ball 0-2: Ball 1-2: SINGLE (Groundball, 34) N. Sturdivant to third Runner from 3rd tries for Home, throw and OUT! This play was scored as a 4-2 putout. Unfortunately I don't have the pbp but I am remember the hit going to the right fielder which should make it a 9-4-2 assuming the right fielder hit the cutoff man or 9-2 if not.

07-04-2006, 03:03 PM	#8
bogieman Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 149	This play: Batting: RHB J. Hiatt0-0: Ball 1-0: Called Strike 1-1: Called Strike Error in OF, E6 and this one: Batting: RHB J. Hiatt0-0: Called Strike Error in OF, E4 C. Terry to third both show the infielder getting charged for an error. Both of these plays the batter registered a hit. There were errors charged on the plays but the errors were charged to the left fielder and right fielder respectively not the infielders.

07-05-2006, 01:26 AM	#10
bogieman Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 149	am I just wasting my time posting my findings I see that people are looking at this thread, but I am not getting any feedback whether what I am is doing is worth my time. Are these problems being addressed in the 1.02 wip patch or later? Am I giving enough detail or am I blowing smoke? btw, I found a lost putout situation which was my original goal. I believe this has been reported, on a bunt foul for a third strike the catcher is not getting credit for the putout. 10.10 (a) Automatic putouts shall be credited to the catcher as follows: ... (2) When the batter is called out for bunting foul for his third strike: exception 10.17 (a) (4) 10.17 (a) A strikeout shall be scored by a third strike caught by a catcher: ... (4) A batter bunts foul on a third strike. EXCEPTION: if such bunt on third strike results in a foul fly caught by any fielder, do not score a strikeout. Credit the fielder who catches the foul fly with a putout. Last edited by bogieman; 07-05-2006 at 01:30 AM.

07-05-2006, 08:45 PM	#12
bogieman Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 149	Example #1 Catcher not getting credit for putout and bunted foul 3rd strike. Six strikeouts catcher only has 5 putouts. Happened of the first game of the season. team stats player stats strikeouts 1-3 strikeouts 4-6 Attached Images

07-05-2006, 09:53 PM	#13
bogieman Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 149	Example #2 Player steals second bad throw E2 runner goes to third. Batter gets charged with at bat and later triples, box score show 1-2. Attached Images

07-06-2006, 12:33 AM	#14
M's rule All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Seattle Posts: 925	bogieman, I have been following along, trying to figure out how I could address these problems in TT. I guess I've felt, as Zeyes put it, as though I didn't have a complete picture of any single problem. Your latest two posts are excellent information. Whenever you can provide this much detail, the problem is a lot easier to understand. I'll work on distilling some of your earlier posts into issues that I can put into TT. Don't expect a lot of headway before the upcoming patch, but I hope we'll make progress on these glitches for the next one.

07-06-2006, 12:51 AM	#15
f.montoya Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,069	It might also be useful to Markus if he could get his hands on your .dat files. Do you think you could zip them and post them somewhere? Marc Duffy can give you FTP access to do so, if you don't have a place to post them. Also, you can email them to Markus directly as well. __________________ Fidel Montoya Asahi2 Baseball ex-Commissioner(Historical League Since 2004) www.allsimbaseball.com (OOTP web hosting - Customized sites for online leagues - Sign up, Connect OOTP and Play!) Share Your Mods - Free, unlimited and easy to upload to share your Mods instantly(free site registration required)

07-06-2006, 11:49 PM	#16
bogieman Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 149	Unfortunately I don't keep the leagues. I have a league that I saved and tweak the settings to see what happens. This all started when I tried to get realistic fielding averages for 1871 season. I simmed the season over and over adjusting the players fielding ratings as well other settings. If you you want a boat load of fielding errors guaranteed to have the problems I have discussed show up within a game or two this is all you have to do. 1. create the simplest universe possible, 1 league, 1 division, 2 teams, turn all the extras off, 20 player limit, 3 pitchers, etc 2. export rosters 3. rename the roster file from a .txt to .csv 4. open roster file in Excel 5. zero out all the fielding ratings the last 18 columns 6. import the roster, don't need to rename back to .txt 7. setup team line ups, depth charts, pitching staffs 8. starting playing games When I have done this I get a league fielding average just under .900. I have had teams as low as .850. This should produce at least 5 to 15 errors a game. I have seen as high as 24 errors in 1 game. Attached Images

07-07-2006, 12:10 AM	#17
bogieman Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 149	It took me just 2 games to get these results, 8 errors in the game, 2 players with extra at bats, Moncibas and Hampton for Minneapolis. When looking through the log this what I found. If you add the at bats a walks you will notice that Moncibas and Hampton have 7 plate appearances and the batters before and after only have 6 or 5. There were no sacrifices or hit batters. Attached Images Last edited by bogieman; 07-07-2006 at 12:12 AM.

07-07-2006, 07:57 PM	#19
TC Dale Global Moderator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,874	Let us know post 1.02 patch how this is. This is still open, but let us know within a week or the thread is closed. __________________ ---------------------------------- “Don't go around saying the world owes you a living, the world owes you nothing, it was here first.” Mark Twain.

07-07-2006, 08:49 PM	#20
bogieman Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 149	Both issues are still 1.02.