PCL Question/Setup

sbrylski · 09-20-2007, 10:55 PM

I'm setting up a league with an independant minor league system and fictional players. I will include the PCL (along with the IL and AA), but here's my question: How often did the PCL sign players away from the "eastern" leagues?

I know there was some movement out of the PCL, but does anyone know how often players moved west?

Fewer players from the PCL went to the MLB than from the IL and AA, and to accomplish that I'll just up the PCL's attendance higher than the IL and AA so they'll have more money to retain more of their own players, and historically they did. But I'm sure this will result in the PCL signing way too many players from the east, so I'm thinking of also just restricting the PCL from signing any FA from other leagues. That's the only two options I can come up with, way too many eastern signings or none at all.

Which would you think is better, and which would you say is more historically accurate? Can you see any other options, without getting too complicated or adding too much minor work?

No Pepper · 09-21-2007, 09:20 AM

Depending on various circumstances, the PCL was an outlaw league at times. Reserved MLB players were blacklisted if they signed contracts with teams out west, but were probably just as easily whisked away from the PCL whenever MLB teams needed the talent. The PCL was able to free itself from the annual major league draft (Rule V I think) for a number of years, but I'm not sure if that prohibited them from plucking players at lower classifications. The MLB probably, at times, farmed players in the PCL, and the PCL farmed players in other minors, but team affiliations weren't really as widespread as between MLB and other leagues.

Some options include:

1) Increasing service time needed before becoming a free agent - This will keep young players around longer but will also not allow them to sign MLB contracts at a young age. Dimaggio played 3 full seasons in the PCL (18-20 y.o.). He was actually traded at the end of his 2nd year to the Yankees but on condition he spend another year with the Seals. So allowing trades between leagues is an option. Of course there were other stars in the PCL that played their entire careers there, and being paid year-round was an attractive incentive to stay and forgo a career in the majors, which paid less either overall or only during the season, and not to mention the nicer weather. Some would argue these players could well have starred in the majors.

2) Set up the PCL in another country by using one of the available "Nation mods" out there or by making your own. Then you can set foreigner limits for either league so as to allow some foreigners (easterners if you will) into the league. This will also enter the "home-country" advantage some players look for when signing contracts. To some extent one would have to believe the PCL drew from local talent (California, the NW, etc). Given history, MLB is probably more restrictive as to who they let into the league, even though they sought out to grab the best available talent.

3) Dr. Arbiter's post may give some idea here. I haven't tried this myself yet, even though he's dealing with real players.

4) There may not be a very good and easy way to do all this without significant changes in the game's features. Reserve rosters become a problem without any limits and those may have to be trimmed manually from time to time.

sbrylski · 09-21-2007, 01:27 PM

Good stuff.

I should add that I'm starting somewhere between 1901 to 1914, and it'll become an alternate history league, so as long as the initial setup is fairly close, what happens in the future can vary a bit and doesn't have to be totally accurate.

1) Definitely an option, but wouldn't this still result in a net positive in movement east to west?

2) Its a good idea and would probably work well, but that seems to be a slightly complicated option - especially because there are plans with this alternate history to eventually integrate leagues. I do plan on monitoring and editing birthplace information for the PCL, so that's not a major concern. I'll have to think about this one...

3) I planned on following his guidelines already, but with the PCL at an attendance level between that of the MLB and the other two top minor leagues.

4) I may just have to make a sacrifice somewhere then, which I'd be fine with. I'm still leaning towards simply restricting any movement east to west, but that's still based on assuming the PCL is a rather "unconnected" league.

No Pepper · 09-21-2007, 02:28 PM

I comment as no expert because my experience with this isn't extensive.

Option #1 won't cut movement east to west, correct. All it would do would keep players moving west to east. And if you are using reserve rosters, no doubt those would be stocked with easterners who then wouldn't play as much as they would if they were in an appropriate league. As commissioner, you could prune the reserves yourself to your liking and/or enable certain players in the PCL to become FAs to go where they may. Having an similar restriction in the other leagues would be helpful to restrict movement, but again that requires your select involvement and defeats the purpose of having an AI do the work for you which we'd all like it to do.

Option #2 might actually be less work, though I haven't tried it myself to know. To integrate, simply modify the foreigner percentage (IIRC that pertains to players created for a specific league) and/or set a foreigner limit for each team. Start out with a few, maybe 1 or 2, then increase as you see fit. Teams will then decide if it is beneficial to them to meet that limit. On the surface that seems a lot less work than monitoring and editing birthplaces. That is, if the foreigner limits work as they should. SandMan has described a league of his where 80% is from Wisconsin and 20% are from the Midwest using a modified nations set he created.

Regardless of your success, please let us know what you tried and what happened!

I'm trying to run something similar.

sbrylski · 09-22-2007, 12:08 AM

I'm still leaning towards prohibiting the PCL from taking any easterners on their own, then maybe sending a few players over manually that couldn't find a team during FA or rotting on a reserve roster.

Maybe a little more work, but I'll get to know the league better!

sbrylski · 09-22-2007, 10:11 PM

New question: Along with the independant minors I'm running, I also will be running the Federal League. Now, the MLB obviously had no free agency, but players jumped to the Feds anyway. Is there any way to set up the MLB without free agency but yet let the FL try to sign guys away anyway? The only way I can think of is to manually pick out players to "jump" leagues.

Kelric · 09-22-2007, 11:42 PM

The only way I can think of (and I'm tired and not thinking clearly) is that anyone not offered a contract by any other team will still be declared free agents. You won't get good players, but guys can still switch between leagues. They just may not be guys you'd want on your team...

Michael Hopcroft · 11-25-2007, 03:41 PM

Related question: Suppose I want to set up a universe with four major leagues -- American, Federal, National and Pacific Coast. Assuming such a system is possible, I'd like to know if anyone has done the historical pasrks for the PCL for OOTP so that, for example, the Portland Beavers play their home games in a Vaught Street park that behaves like the original.

SandMan · 11-25-2007, 09:10 PM

Why not set up the PCL as its own nation file with players only from the Western States? Then all would have to do is to set the "foreigner" percentage or set the max number of foreigners per team. My RDS files do this and you can add the files to the current database files also. The RDS files set up nations by region, division and State so you could use the Western Region and it should work for you.....

09-21-2007, 01:27 PM	#3
sbrylski Major Leagues Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 331	Good stuff. I should add that I'm starting somewhere between 1901 to 1914, and it'll become an alternate history league, so as long as the initial setup is fairly close, what happens in the future can vary a bit and doesn't have to be totally accurate. 1) Definitely an option, but wouldn't this still result in a net positive in movement east to west? 2) Its a good idea and would probably work well, but that seems to be a slightly complicated option - especially because there are plans with this alternate history to eventually integrate leagues. I do plan on monitoring and editing birthplace information for the PCL, so that's not a major concern. I'll have to think about this one... 3) I planned on following his guidelines already, but with the PCL at an attendance level between that of the MLB and the other two top minor leagues. 4) I may just have to make a sacrifice somewhere then, which I'd be fine with. I'm still leaning towards simply restricting any movement east to west, but that's still based on assuming the PCL is a rather "unconnected" league. __________________ The International Baseball Association - A Quick-Start League

09-21-2007, 02:28 PM	#4
No Pepper All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,570	I comment as no expert because my experience with this isn't extensive. Option #1 won't cut movement east to west, correct. All it would do would keep players moving west to east. And if you are using reserve rosters, no doubt those would be stocked with easterners who then wouldn't play as much as they would if they were in an appropriate league. As commissioner, you could prune the reserves yourself to your liking and/or enable certain players in the PCL to become FAs to go where they may. Having an similar restriction in the other leagues would be helpful to restrict movement, but again that requires your select involvement and defeats the purpose of having an AI do the work for you which we'd all like it to do. Option #2 might actually be less work, though I haven't tried it myself to know. To integrate, simply modify the foreigner percentage (IIRC that pertains to players created for a specific league) and/or set a foreigner limit for each team. Start out with a few, maybe 1 or 2, then increase as you see fit. Teams will then decide if it is beneficial to them to meet that limit. On the surface that seems a lot less work than monitoring and editing birthplaces. That is, if the foreigner limits work as they should. SandMan has described a league of his where 80% is from Wisconsin and 20% are from the Midwest using a modified nations set he created. Regardless of your success, please let us know what you tried and what happened! I'm trying to run something similar. __________________ Uniforms compatible with OOTP23/24 Historical Major League Baseball 1901-current Historical Major League Baseball 1871-1900 Historical Federal League Historical Negro Leagues Last edited by No Pepper; 09-21-2007 at 02:32 PM.

09-22-2007, 12:08 AM	#5
sbrylski Major Leagues Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 331	I'm still leaning towards prohibiting the PCL from taking any easterners on their own, then maybe sending a few players over manually that couldn't find a team during FA or rotting on a reserve roster. Maybe a little more work, but I'll get to know the league better! __________________ The International Baseball Association - A Quick-Start League

09-22-2007, 10:11 PM	#6
sbrylski Major Leagues Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 331	New question: Along with the independant minors I'm running, I also will be running the Federal League. Now, the MLB obviously had no free agency, but players jumped to the Feds anyway. Is there any way to set up the MLB without free agency but yet let the FL try to sign guys away anyway? The only way I can think of is to manually pick out players to "jump" leagues. __________________ The International Baseball Association - A Quick-Start League

09-20-2007, 10:55 PM	#1
sbrylski Major Leagues Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 331	PCL Question/Setup I'm setting up a league with an independant minor league system and fictional players. I will include the PCL (along with the IL and AA), but here's my question: How often did the PCL sign players away from the "eastern" leagues? I know there was some movement out of the PCL, but does anyone know how often players moved west? Fewer players from the PCL went to the MLB than from the IL and AA, and to accomplish that I'll just up the PCL's attendance higher than the IL and AA so they'll have more money to retain more of their own players, and historically they did. But I'm sure this will result in the PCL signing way too many players from the east, so I'm thinking of also just restricting the PCL from signing any FA from other leagues. That's the only two options I can come up with, way too many eastern signings or none at all. Which would you think is better, and which would you say is more historically accurate? Can you see any other options, without getting too complicated or adding too much minor work? __________________ The International Baseball Association - A Quick-Start League

09-21-2007, 09:20 AM	#2
No Pepper All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,570	Depending on various circumstances, the PCL was an outlaw league at times. Reserved MLB players were blacklisted if they signed contracts with teams out west, but were probably just as easily whisked away from the PCL whenever MLB teams needed the talent. The PCL was able to free itself from the annual major league draft (Rule V I think) for a number of years, but I'm not sure if that prohibited them from plucking players at lower classifications. The MLB probably, at times, farmed players in the PCL, and the PCL farmed players in other minors, but team affiliations weren't really as widespread as between MLB and other leagues. Some options include: 1) Increasing service time needed before becoming a free agent - This will keep young players around longer but will also not allow them to sign MLB contracts at a young age. Dimaggio played 3 full seasons in the PCL (18-20 y.o.). He was actually traded at the end of his 2nd year to the Yankees but on condition he spend another year with the Seals. So allowing trades between leagues is an option. Of course there were other stars in the PCL that played their entire careers there, and being paid year-round was an attractive incentive to stay and forgo a career in the majors, which paid less either overall or only during the season, and not to mention the nicer weather. Some would argue these players could well have starred in the majors. 2) Set up the PCL in another country by using one of the available "Nation mods" out there or by making your own. Then you can set foreigner limits for either league so as to allow some foreigners (easterners if you will) into the league. This will also enter the "home-country" advantage some players look for when signing contracts. To some extent one would have to believe the PCL drew from local talent (California, the NW, etc). Given history, MLB is probably more restrictive as to who they let into the league, even though they sought out to grab the best available talent. 3) Dr. Arbiter's post may give some idea here. I haven't tried this myself yet, even though he's dealing with real players. 4) There may not be a very good and easy way to do all this without significant changes in the game's features. Reserve rosters become a problem without any limits and those may have to be trimmed manually from time to time. __________________ Uniforms compatible with OOTP23/24 Historical Major League Baseball 1901-current Historical Major League Baseball 1871-1900 Historical Federal League Historical Negro Leagues Last edited by No Pepper; 09-21-2007 at 09:29 AM.

09-22-2007, 11:42 PM	#7
Kelric Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Greater Boston Area Posts: 3,992	The only way I can think of (and I'm tired and not thinking clearly) is that anyone not offered a contract by any other team will still be declared free agents. You won't get good players, but guys can still switch between leagues. They just may not be guys you'd want on your team...

11-25-2007, 03:41 PM	#8
Michael Hopcroft Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Portland, OR USA Posts: 487	Related question: Suppose I want to set up a universe with four major leagues -- American, Federal, National and Pacific Coast. Assuming such a system is possible, I'd like to know if anyone has done the historical pasrks for the PCL for OOTP so that, for example, the Portland Beavers play their home games in a Vaught Street park that behaves like the original.

11-25-2007, 09:10 PM	#9
SandMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,946	Why not set up the PCL as its own nation file with players only from the Western States? Then all would have to do is to set the "foreigner" percentage or set the max number of foreigners per team. My RDS files do this and you can add the files to the current database files also. The RDS files set up nations by region, division and State so you could use the Western Region and it should work for you.....