Historical Pitcher Import w/ recalc

risp2out · 08-13-2009, 10:16 AM

I've only done limited historical playing with X, but I've noticed (and I've seen others elaborate on this a lot) that some pitchers - Dizzy Dean being the most noticeable example to me - come in as relievers. Here's my QUESTION: if you have recalc, will they develop the pitches automatically in subsequent years? Does one- or three-year recalc make a difference in this?

For the record, I think having pitchers throw their actual, historical pitches is among the most important improvements that could be made to the game.

Thanks for any insight to the above question.

Bristolduke · 08-13-2009, 12:01 PM

There are several threads about pitches and their accuracy. I don't believe they will change over a career.

With respect to the MR/SP setting. Yes a pitcher will change over time (any player will change positions) based upon recalc. As to which setting (1 year, 3 year, 5 year), it is a matter of preference and what you are trying to achieve. 1 year will most closely represent each season. If you want more variability in you sim then move on to 3-year or 5-year. Rating and positions will change as their career goes along.

SteveP · 08-13-2009, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by risp2out

For the record, I think having pitchers throw their actual, historical pitches is among the most important improvements that could be made to the game.

Keep in mind that the specific pitches they throw have no impact whatsoever in the game. It's basically a cosmetic issue, though one that can be a bit irritating to look at, especially in early historicals.

PhillieFever · 08-13-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveP

Keep in mind that the specific pitches they throw have no impact whatsoever in the game. It's basically a cosmetic issue, though one that can be a bit irritating to look at, especially in early historicals.

No,the issue isn't about the pitches he throws,although they aren't historically accurate,they like you said really don't affect performance too much.What is happening is,guys like Dizzy Dean,Smoky Joe Wood,Ron Guidry Steve Carlton,and I'm sure many others who were starting pitchers are being imported into the game with only two pitches,which basically puts them in the bullpen for their entire careers.This is a problem that was fixed early on in beta,but somehow crept back into the final release.

risp2out · 08-13-2009, 06:37 PM

Thanks, guys.

I'm less concerned with which pitches the pitcher throws (though, for historical accuarcy, that would be really neat) than with the fact that dominant starters cannot become starters. I would think that, with recalc, the game should realize that someone who threw 300 innings has to be considered a starter and give them the attributes that a starter has. So, it's fine with me if 1993 Pedro Martinez (65 G, 2 GS) has only two pitches, but it's not so good if 1994 Pedro (24 G, 23 GS) has only two, and it's terrible if 1995 and following Pedro can't be starter. Will the game recognize his new role with recalc on and make the proper adjustments?

clamel · 08-16-2009, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveP

Keep in mind that the specific pitches they throw have no impact whatsoever in the game. It's basically a cosmetic issue, though one that can be a bit irritating to look at, especially in early historicals.

AND this stuff wasn´t suppose to be cosmetic anymore !!!!!
Whatever the pitcher throws should count in X, at least in the selling argument of improvements.
The reality was something else. At least until perhaps next patch. Lets hope....

Scruff · 08-18-2009, 04:34 PM

This wouldn't even be that hard to implement (getting the pitches correct).

There is a book by Bill James and Rob Neyer, called "The James/Neyer Guide to Pitchers". This book lists what pitches everyone threw (among other things). I think it covers everyone who threw at least 500 innings, though I'm not 100% positive on that one.

All it would take to implement this in the game would be some grunt work (OK, a bunch of grunt work) and adding a couple of columns (if they aren't already there) to the player DB.

The James/Neyer book even tells when a pitcher developed a new pitch if it was mid-career, so this could be added also.

risp2out · 08-20-2009, 10:07 AM

Having the real pitches would be neat, but this still doesn't answer my first question: does anyone know whether a pitcher who comes in as a reliever will change into a starter when re-calc is on? If so, does one-, three-, five-year make a difference? I see Bristol's post above, but it seems to me that I've seen pitchers come in with two pitches (because they were relievers the first year) and continue to have just those two pitches even when we get to a year where they started in real life and threw 200+ innings.

PhillieFever · 08-20-2009, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by risp2out

Having the real pitches would be neat, but this still doesn't answer my first question: does anyone know whether a pitcher who comes in as a reliever will change into a starter when re-calc is on? If so, does one-, three-, five-year make a difference? I see Bristol's post above, but it seems to me that I've seen pitchers come in with two pitches (because they were relievers the first year) and continue to have just those two pitches even when we get to a year where they started in real life and threw 200+ innings.

In short,no they will not add another pitch as long as recalc is used.I've posted a bug about this very issue over in the beta forum,hopefully it gets addressed

HitmanTerp · 09-01-2009, 06:59 PM

So many pitchers are coming in as relievers with no Stamina..

Dizzy Dean
Early Wynn
Warren Spahn
Johnny Sain

Just to name a few.. I had to edit their stamina to make them starters. Problem, though I am not familiar with every pitcher who should be a starter so I know I've probably missed a few.

08-13-2009, 10:16 AM	#1
risp2out All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 648	Historical Pitcher Import w/ recalc I've only done limited historical playing with X, but I've noticed (and I've seen others elaborate on this a lot) that some pitchers - Dizzy Dean being the most noticeable example to me - come in as relievers. Here's my QUESTION: if you have recalc, will they develop the pitches automatically in subsequent years? Does one- or three-year recalc make a difference in this? For the record, I think having pitchers throw their actual, historical pitches is among the most important improvements that could be made to the game. Thanks for any insight to the above question.

08-13-2009, 12:01 PM	#2
Bristolduke All Star Starter Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,409	There are several threads about pitches and their accuracy. I don't believe they will change over a career. With respect to the MR/SP setting. Yes a pitcher will change over time (any player will change positions) based upon recalc. As to which setting (1 year, 3 year, 5 year), it is a matter of preference and what you are trying to achieve. 1 year will most closely represent each season. If you want more variability in you sim then move on to 3-year or 5-year. Rating and positions will change as their career goes along. __________________ Commish of the Home Nations Baseball Association Commish of the Baseball Association League Commish of the League of WAR Commish of the On-Line Dynasty League SIMBL2 - Westbury Cannons Great Lakes Baseball - Toledo Neptunes World Baseball - Guantanamo Marines OMLB - Cincinnati Reds

08-20-2009, 10:07 AM	#8
risp2out All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 648	Having the real pitches would be neat, but this still doesn't answer my first question: does anyone know whether a pitcher who comes in as a reliever will change into a starter when re-calc is on? If so, does one-, three-, five-year make a difference? I see Bristol's post above, but it seems to me that I've seen pitchers come in with two pitches (because they were relievers the first year) and continue to have just those two pitches even when we get to a year where they started in real life and threw 200+ innings. Last edited by risp2out; 08-20-2009 at 10:09 AM.

09-01-2009, 06:59 PM	#10
HitmanTerp Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 17	I'm having the same problem.. So many pitchers are coming in as relievers with no Stamina.. Dizzy Dean Early Wynn Warren Spahn Johnny Sain Just to name a few.. I had to edit their stamina to make them starters. Problem, though I am not familiar with every pitcher who should be a starter so I know I've probably missed a few.

08-13-2009, 06:37 PM	#5
risp2out All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 648	Thanks, guys. I'm less concerned with which pitches the pitcher throws (though, for historical accuarcy, that would be really neat) than with the fact that dominant starters cannot become starters. I would think that, with recalc, the game should realize that someone who threw 300 innings has to be considered a starter and give them the attributes that a starter has. So, it's fine with me if 1993 Pedro Martinez (65 G, 2 GS) has only two pitches, but it's not so good if 1994 Pedro (24 G, 23 GS) has only two, and it's terrible if 1995 and following Pedro can't be starter. Will the game recognize his new role with recalc on and make the proper adjustments?

08-18-2009, 04:34 PM	#7
Scruff Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 243	This wouldn't even be that hard to implement (getting the pitches correct). There is a book by Bill James and Rob Neyer, called "The James/Neyer Guide to Pitchers". This book lists what pitches everyone threw (among other things). I think it covers everyone who threw at least 500 innings, though I'm not 100% positive on that one. All it would take to implement this in the game would be some grunt work (OK, a bunch of grunt work) and adding a couple of columns (if they aren't already there) to the player DB. The James/Neyer book even tells when a pitcher developed a new pitch if it was mid-career, so this could be added also.