DH or no DH?

[Assos]

I listen to a lot of MLB radio on that evil XM radio I have. (It is like crack for the ears.) And I have been hearing on a lot of the shows talk of having both leagues having the DH or the fact that two leagues play under different rules. And how the minors have basically done away with a pitcher batting and spring training, where all the rules go out the window! Of course I remember the days when their were league presidents and separate offices for both leagues, but it brings me to throwing this question out to us, the modders, the sims, the real down and dirty fans who dig in the numbers and are passionate about baseball.
How do you view the DH? Do you play modern with one league having a DH and the other not, or multiple league with/without a DH? I am interested to see what everyone's take is on the DH. I was born five years after the DH came about, born in a two teamed city, became a National League fan, moved to an area that has lots of Spring Training but no MLB team until the AL invaded my life in 1998 so I saw more AL games then NL. I am curious to see how warped my mind was from being a Mets fan!

[Bluenoser]

Not a fan of it irl, but I use it quite often in OOTP simply because I like to use 4 man rotations.

Should mention I play spectator/Commish mode and usually don't manage a team. I like watching results and numbers

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Not a fan of it irl, but I use it quite often in OOTP simply because I like to use 4 man rotations.

Funny, I'm a fan of the DH in real life, but often play OOTP without it. Forces me to pinch hit and use my entire pitching staff. Otherwise, I sometimes find myself simply pressing #1 over and over and over.

[jazzrack]

in online leagues DH, just to save the frustration of goofy subs.

in a large league I usually play with the league half & half.

mostly I play DH, if I played out more game I might play non-dh more but I probably sim a little more than half the time and since I have vastly different ideas on who I want pitching when....

irl, back in the days of John Tudor, Hershiser, Valenzuela ect. watching pitchers hit was ok, now I have grown to hate watching pitchers flail away & would rather watch paint dry

[BusterKing]

It's more fun to manage a non-DH team. Makes you think and in how creative you can be with the double switch.

[Bluenoser]

David Watts and BusterKing - do you guys play your games out?


If I was doing that then I would definitely not use the DH. Managing would be more challenging which would make it more fun

[Assos]

I can tell you I play my games out. But I play mainly historical and start in the 1950s.

[BusterKing]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

David Watts and BusterKing - do you guys play your games out?


If I was doing that then I would definitely not use the DH. Managing would be more challenging which would make it more fun

I do play all my games out but only do the substitution of my players/pitchers so that I don't have an advantage over the AI teams. And in one pitch mode, each game last about 15 minutes. Of course a spend a lot of time on other functions in between games.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

David Watts and BusterKing - do you guys play your games out?


If I was doing that then I would definitely not use the DH. Managing would be more challenging which would make it more fun

Yes. When I manage only, I play them out. Lately, I have been playing a lot as a spectator as well. When doing this, I just watch a particular teams games play out.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Funny, I'm a fan of the DH in real life, but often play OOTP without it. Forces me to pinch hit and use my entire pitching staff. Otherwise, I sometimes find myself simply pressing #1 over and over and over.

Just like a typical American League manager.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by BusterKing

It's more fun to manage a non-DH team. Makes you think and in how creative you can be with the double switch.

Which is exactly why the DH never should've been implemented.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by BusterKing

I do play all my games out but only do the substitution of my players/pitchers so that I don't have an advantage over the AI teams. And in one pitch mode, each game last about 15 minutes. Of course a spend a lot of time on other functions in between games.

Wow, we play in game the same way. I didn't know anyone else did this. I can't say I do it to avoid an advantage though. Sometimes I get the feeling the AI managers are gathered in a room telling jokes about me behind my back

[Padreman]

I have ok with it don't love don't hate it. I like how NL does not use it but I like how the AL does.
I have 20 team major league that uses DH and a rival 32 team major league divided into 2 16 team sub leagues. One sub league uses it and the other does not.

[rpriske]

I play DH in AL and no-DH in NL, just like in real life. If I played a pre-DH AL team, I wouldn't use a DH. (I do play an older team, but it is NL.)

I REALLY like the way we have it now with a DH in one league and not in the other. It makes the difference in leagues mean something.

[DustinthePOWERHOUSE]

I DH both leagues. I usually play in the AL anyway though so it's not really an issue for me.

[frangipard]

Originally Posted by BusterKing

It's more fun to manage a non-DH team. Makes you think and in how creative you can be with the double switch.

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Which is exactly why the DH never should've been implemented.

Actually (and this is a point I steal from Bill James), the DH opens up more strategic options for managers. Yes, the double-switch is gone, but a lot of other things are present that the DH takes away.

With no DH, the pitcher bunting in a lot of situations is an automatic move (and moreover, it makes NOT bunting, or doing a H&R, with the #7 and #8 hitters automatic moves, too). With the DH, traditionally you see a lot more variation, with some AL teams bunting a lot, and some teams almost never.

Especially in the modern era of 6 and 7 man bullpens, not having a DH means you have to be very careful how you use your bench, and forces teams to be a lot more predictable. You only have 5 position players on the bench to work with (4 if you subtract the backup catcher), and you never want to be in the situation of having used up all your pinch-hitters, so you're really constrained. With the DH, you don't have to worry about holding guys back for use as pinch-hitters later, and so you can choose -- or not -- to be more aggressive and creative in using your bench. e.g. You can do a lot more Earl Weaver-style platoon switches of position players, or you can keep guys on the bench who have a very specific role (pinch-runner, defensive specialist, only hits lefties, etc.).


I'm a NL fan, and prefer the pitcher hitting just because aesthetically, I prefer everyone playing both ways. But the DH does actually open up a lot of possibilities, and it's unfortunate that few teams have really exploited it.

Actually, what I think would be cool would be to have DH/non-DH be part of the ground rules -- that is, the home team decides which is in effect. That would really add an interesting strategic dimension to the game...

[Trebro]

When the next deal with the players association puts the DH in both leagues, I will die a little inside.

[Assos]

I almost called in on a show talking about putting the DH in the National League. I think that would be sacrilegious. I am with The Wolf, I enjoy not having the DH, but in my case I use it if I want to create that feel of more offence.

[rpriske]

Originally Posted by Trebro

When the next deal with the players association puts the DH in both leagues, I will die a little inside.

I agree with you.... and I really like the DH.

It is literally the only difference between the two leagues. Leave the difference alone.

[chucksabr]

Originally Posted by the wolf

Just like a typical National League manager.

ftfy.