Manager salaries: something not working?

BPS · 03-20-2015, 01:11 PM

Started in 2015 and created a fictional league using all the defaults. Simmed two years, made myself a GM, and am now looking to hire a manager. It's 2017.

Salaries for current and potential managers don't seem right. Some are very low (given default 2017 salaries where some players earn around $10 million) while others are, in relative terms, huge.

For instance: one employed "excellent" manager in the ML is earning only $85K while another employed "decent" ML manager is earning $120K. That's pretty low, given 2017 salaries throughout the league.

At the other end of the scale, an employed bench coach with managerial interests (with "average" rep) earns $470k, five times larger than the employed excellent manager above.The unemployed manager I wanted to hire asked for over $1 million a year, more than 10x the salary of the best employed ML manager.

Are others finding similar sorts of things for salaries?

AirmenSmith · 03-20-2015, 02:01 PM

I haven't looked at it yet but I do know manager salaries are not published except in news outlets. Going off that, I don't think we will get exacts. But they should be up'd.

BPS · 03-20-2015, 02:51 PM

Perhaps my newly created game is unusual, but a huge difference currently exists in staff salaries. My inexperienced rookie league manager is getting $200K while my ML average pitching coach is paid 48K.

And when I offer an extension to my scout he wants a huge increase (see below). Seems the game is in the process of moving from low salaries to high salaries and so huge differences exist in what people are paid. The salary my scout wants for an extension is more than 50% of the total staff salaries some teams are paying to their whole staff (with ML and all minor level levels).

endgame · 03-20-2015, 02:56 PM

BPS, you said this was a fictional setup using defaults, right? Can you provide a screenshot of the default staff/manager baseline salaries on the setup page? Are we in line with those parameters?

Matt Arnold · 03-20-2015, 03:02 PM

I've been struggling with staff salaries, as it's very hard to get the MLB guys with "reasonable" numbers, but to keep minors managers from signing million dollar deals.

Managers should be making a lot more than pitching or hitting coaches, and if guys move around you will see big differences. Overall I think coach salaries are higher than before, but we might still need to do some work to balance things out. I'll have a look over the weekend to see what's going on.

If you feel you have a problem, please let me know:
-What position (both their suggested position and current occupation)
-When they last signed a contract (if you know that)
-The league settings for average coach salary
-The old and new salaries

BPS · 03-20-2015, 04:14 PM

Here's the info about baselines along with some salaries for personnel. This is all based on defaults. And it strikes me odd that the average profit is projected to be almost -7 million.

BPS · 03-20-2015, 04:21 PM

Here's another example of what happens when offering an extension: he wants a salary increase of 4x. I offered him less than that (an increase from 48K to 200K) and he turned me down.

BPS · 03-20-2015, 04:29 PM

I'm not sure what the coach salary baseline represents, but the info below (from a team the AI controls) seems inconsistent with the 400K baseline:

endgame · 03-20-2015, 04:44 PM

Good observations and thanks for pointing it out. Stepping back a bit to verify, this is a fictional league setup right out of the box, right? That baseline should serve to average over the league the types of salaries you see, but obviously as you pointed out, it isn't.

Even though it's a default setup- and I'll try this myself, if you're not inclined -I'd be curious, again right out of the box, if you select League Setting and Assign Fictional Salaries to Personnel, if they escalate toward the baseline. I'm expecting they might, for whatever reason. And if they do, we'll file a bug that says it's not doing that straightaway, but requires the manual adjustment.

Again, thanks for the input.

BPS · 03-20-2015, 04:47 PM

Here's another bit if info from AI team.

A ML decent manager is paid less than an inexperienced AA manager. And these salaries were the same for the previous two years (including the first year of the league). Worst, the lower-paid ML manager won manager of the year in the first year!

Matt Arnold · 03-20-2015, 04:54 PM

Those ML salaries definitely seem low. If you want to upload your files, I'd be interested in seeing those. If not, if you are interested in testing, I was wondering if you assigned fictional personel contracts to see how much they change.

BPS · 03-20-2015, 05:04 PM

I generated a new game using default financials for 2015. The default coach baseline was, as before, $400K (first image below). It seems that when the game is created it doesn't use this default but something lower (2nd image below).

But when you offer a NEW contract (either to an unemployed person or via extension) the coach bases his demands on the (higher) $400K baseline. The 3rd image below indicates the salary demand of an unemployed potential manager made on the first day of the game (right after the game creation).

BPS · 03-20-2015, 05:09 PM

I increased the coach baseline to $5 million and new contract demands rose along with this.

endgame · 03-20-2015, 05:11 PM

Right, but just use the initial 400K and select the Assign Fictional Personnel Contracts. See what adjustments take place in similar screens like in post #10.

BPS · 03-20-2015, 05:20 PM

A separate issue is that some factor is leading some minor league managers to earn more than ML managers. (as in screenshot below). Perhaps this is also true for other staff too.

Complete stab in the dark... I imagine that

salaries = f(relevant stuff, baseline salary) + random factor,

where the random factor is, in turn,

Random factor = g(baseline salary).

Maybe the baseline salary that does into "f" at league creation is the wrong one (too low) while the baseline salary that goes into "g" is the right one (which is larger than the low one). If this is happening then the random factor might be far too large and can overwhelm the "f" function giving, in some cases, minor league managers with higher salaries than ML managers.

BPS · 03-20-2015, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endgame

Right, but just use the initial 400K and select the Assign Fictional Personnel Contracts. See what adjustments take place in similar screens like in post #10.

Yep. But my salary didn't increase! Unfair!!! And the pitching coach got a huge bump. Before the assignment of new contracts, the pitching coach and the Assistant GM earned the same, but now the pitching coach earns almost twice what the Assistant GM earns. And, the bench coach before earned 2x the team trainer but now they earn about the same amount. THE NUMBERS BELOW MIGHT HAVE BEEN DRIVEN NOT BY 400K BASELINE BUT BY A HIGHER ONE I ADDED LATER.

BPS · 03-20-2015, 05:27 PM

Here's the before and after (assignment of new contracts):

endgame · 03-20-2015, 05:36 PM

Perfect. Thanks! Matt'll have a look I'm sure and determine what's going on. I don't know why that baseline isn't kicking in from day one.

BPS · 03-20-2015, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Those ML salaries definitely seem low. If you want to upload your files, I'd be interested in seeing those. If not, if you are interested in testing, I was wondering if you assigned fictional personel contracts to see how much they change.

Uploaded via FTP: "BPS Coach Salary Issue...zip." This is for the first game above (start of 3rd season I think).

Matt Arnold · 03-20-2015, 06:34 PM

Thanks a lot! It's late here, but I'll have a look in the morning and hopefully have it sorted out.

03-20-2015, 02:01 PM	#2
AirmenSmith Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Kalispell, MT Posts: 2,094	I haven't looked at it yet but I do know manager salaries are not published except in news outlets. Going off that, I don't think we will get exacts. But they should be up'd. __________________ Come join me on my Twitch Channel for gaming at its excellence Twitch Link

03-20-2015, 02:51 PM	#3
BPS All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 717	Perhaps my newly created game is unusual, but a huge difference currently exists in staff salaries. My inexperienced rookie league manager is getting $200K while my ML average pitching coach is paid 48K. And when I offer an extension to my scout he wants a huge increase (see below). Seems the game is in the process of moving from low salaries to high salaries and so huge differences exist in what people are paid. The salary my scout wants for an extension is more than 50% of the total staff salaries some teams are paying to their whole staff (with ML and all minor level levels). Attached Images Last edited by BPS; 03-20-2015 at 02:55 PM.

03-20-2015, 02:56 PM	#4
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 16,842	BPS, you said this was a fictional setup using defaults, right? Can you provide a screenshot of the default staff/manager baseline salaries on the setup page? Are we in line with those parameters? __________________ "Try again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett _____________________________________________

03-20-2015, 04:14 PM	#6
BPS All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 717	Here's the info about baselines along with some salaries for personnel. This is all based on defaults. And it strikes me odd that the average profit is projected to be almost -7 million. Attached Images Last edited by BPS; 03-20-2015 at 04:33 PM.

03-20-2015, 04:21 PM	#7
BPS All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 717	Here's another example of what happens when offering an extension: he wants a salary increase of 4x. I offered him less than that (an increase from 48K to 200K) and he turned me down. Attached Images

03-20-2015, 01:11 PM	#1
BPS All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 717	Manager salaries: something not working? Started in 2015 and created a fictional league using all the defaults. Simmed two years, made myself a GM, and am now looking to hire a manager. It's 2017. Salaries for current and potential managers don't seem right. Some are very low (given default 2017 salaries where some players earn around $10 million) while others are, in relative terms, huge. For instance: one employed "excellent" manager in the ML is earning only $85K while another employed "decent" ML manager is earning $120K. That's pretty low, given 2017 salaries throughout the league. At the other end of the scale, an employed bench coach with managerial interests (with "average" rep) earns $470k, five times larger than the employed excellent manager above.The unemployed manager I wanted to hire asked for over $1 million a year, more than 10x the salary of the best employed ML manager. Are others finding similar sorts of things for salaries?

03-20-2015, 03:02 PM	#5
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 15,830	I've been struggling with staff salaries, as it's very hard to get the MLB guys with "reasonable" numbers, but to keep minors managers from signing million dollar deals. Managers should be making a lot more than pitching or hitting coaches, and if guys move around you will see big differences. Overall I think coach salaries are higher than before, but we might still need to do some work to balance things out. I'll have a look over the weekend to see what's going on. If you feel you have a problem, please let me know: -What position (both their suggested position and current occupation) -When they last signed a contract (if you know that) -The league settings for average coach salary -The old and new salaries

03-20-2015, 04:29 PM	#8
BPS All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 717	I'm not sure what the coach salary baseline represents, but the info below (from a team the AI controls) seems inconsistent with the 400K baseline: Attached Images

03-20-2015, 04:44 PM	#9
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 16,842	Good observations and thanks for pointing it out. Stepping back a bit to verify, this is a fictional league setup right out of the box, right? That baseline should serve to average over the league the types of salaries you see, but obviously as you pointed out, it isn't. Even though it's a default setup- and I'll try this myself, if you're not inclined -I'd be curious, again right out of the box, if you select League Setting and Assign Fictional Salaries to Personnel, if they escalate toward the baseline. I'm expecting they might, for whatever reason. And if they do, we'll file a bug that says it's not doing that straightaway, but requires the manual adjustment. Again, thanks for the input. __________________ "Try again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett _____________________________________________

03-20-2015, 04:47 PM	#10
BPS All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 717	Here's another bit if info from AI team. A ML decent manager is paid less than an inexperienced AA manager. And these salaries were the same for the previous two years (including the first year of the league). Worst, the lower-paid ML manager won manager of the year in the first year! Attached Images

03-20-2015, 04:54 PM	#11
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 15,830	Those ML salaries definitely seem low. If you want to upload your files, I'd be interested in seeing those. If not, if you are interested in testing, I was wondering if you assigned fictional personel contracts to see how much they change.

03-20-2015, 05:04 PM	#12
BPS All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 717	I generated a new game using default financials for 2015. The default coach baseline was, as before, $400K (first image below). It seems that when the game is created it doesn't use this default but something lower (2nd image below). But when you offer a NEW contract (either to an unemployed person or via extension) the coach bases his demands on the (higher) $400K baseline. The 3rd image below indicates the salary demand of an unemployed potential manager made on the first day of the game (right after the game creation). Attached Images

03-20-2015, 05:09 PM	#13
BPS All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 717	I increased the coach baseline to $5 million and new contract demands rose along with this. Attached Images

03-20-2015, 05:11 PM	#14
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 16,842	Right, but just use the initial 400K and select the Assign Fictional Personnel Contracts. See what adjustments take place in similar screens like in post #10. __________________ "Try again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett _____________________________________________

03-20-2015, 05:20 PM	#15
BPS All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 717	A separate issue is that some factor is leading some minor league managers to earn more than ML managers. (as in screenshot below). Perhaps this is also true for other staff too. Complete stab in the dark... I imagine that salaries = f(relevant stuff, baseline salary) + random factor, where the random factor is, in turn, Random factor = g(baseline salary). Maybe the baseline salary that does into "f" at league creation is the wrong one (too low) while the baseline salary that goes into "g" is the right one (which is larger than the low one). If this is happening then the random factor might be far too large and can overwhelm the "f" function giving, in some cases, minor league managers with higher salaries than ML managers. Attached Images

03-20-2015, 05:27 PM	#17
BPS All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 717	Here's the before and after (assignment of new contracts): Attached Images

03-20-2015, 05:36 PM	#18
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 16,842	Perfect. Thanks! Matt'll have a look I'm sure and determine what's going on. I don't know why that baseline isn't kicking in from day one. __________________ "Try again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett _____________________________________________

03-20-2015, 06:34 PM	#20
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 15,830	Thanks a lot! It's late here, but I'll have a look in the morning and hopefully have it sorted out.