Curious about lefties and defensive positions

[Dyzalot]

Does OOTP have any built in discrimination against left handed throwers from playing positions like third base? I was tempted to draft this guy and convert him but wasn't sure how the game would handle it.

[ra7c7er]

No it doesn't.

From what I've seen it doesn't have any discrimination with lefty catchers either.

[Anyone]

I never saw why a lefty thrower can't play Catcher in real life.

He'd have more trouble than righty throwers throwing out base stealers (of 2nd) when the batter hits right handed, but less trouble with left handed batters. Right handed batters are, of course, more common; but catchers do throw base stealers when lefties are batting.

It seems he'd find it easier to throw around a runner who hits a tapper or bunts and runs to first.

As far as the infield, this doesn't happen, but: I'd use the fact that to be rated at 2B/3B/SS you need as least 20 for "turn DP" and I'd make it so that a left handed thrower simply could never get that rating. I'd pile on top of that a special large penalty for the speed at which a lefty thrower could throw to first.

But...none of that happens. I nevertheless have never encountered in my game a lefty thrower rated at 2B/3B/SS; but then I've never tried putting one there (or at C), either.

[ra7c7er]

Originally Posted by Anyone

I never saw why a lefty thrower can't play Catcher in real life.

He'd have more trouble than righty throwers throwing out base stealers (of 2nd) when the batter hits right handed, but less trouble with left handed batters. Right handed batters are, of course, more common; but catchers do throw base stealers when lefties are batting.

It seems he'd find it easier to throw around a runner who hits a tapper or bunts and runs to first.

As far as the infield, this doesn't happen, but: I'd use the fact that to be rated at 2B/3B/SS you need as least 20 for "turn DP" and I'd make it so that a left handed thrower simply could never get that rating. I'd pile on top of that a special large penalty for the speed at which a lefty thrower could throw to first.

But...none of that happens. I nevertheless have never encountered in my game a lefty thrower rated at 2B/3B/SS; but then I've never tried putting one there (or at C), either.

The difference between a lefty throwing and a right handed guy throwing is milliseconds. Hardly warrants a "large penalty". Also it depends on how the fielder fields the ball. For every situation where a rightly would throw milliseconds faster a lefty would throw milliseconds faster on the other side.

[Dyzalot]

Well I drafted him in the fifth round and will be converting him to third so will be interesting to see if he ends up a MLB regular at that position in my sim.

Originally Posted by ra7c7er

The difference between a lefty throwing and a right handed guy throwing is milliseconds. Hardly warrants a "large penalty". Also it depends on how the fielder fields the ball. For every situation where a rightly would throw milliseconds faster a lefty would throw milliseconds faster on the other side.

Also wouldn't the pivot at 2nd on a DP be easier for a left handed trowing SS than a right handed one? He'd basically already be squared up for the throw to first while taking the throw from the second baseman.

[ra7c7er]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

Well I drafted him in the fifth round and will be converting him to third so will be interesting to see if he ends up a MLB regular at that position in my sim.



Also wouldn't the pivot at 2nd on a DP be easier for a left handed trowing SS than a right handed one? He'd basically already be squared up for the throw to first while taking the throw from the second baseman.

In that situation yeah I'd believe so. The difference isn't going to much.

[Anyone]

Originally Posted by ra7c7er

The difference between a lefty throwing and a right handed guy throwing is milliseconds. Hardly warrants a "large penalty". Also it depends on how the fielder fields the ball. For every situation where a rightly would throw milliseconds faster a lefty would throw milliseconds faster on the other side.

If you mean the lefty could throw faster to 3rd base, I'd agree. Otherwise, I don't.

Maybe someone has read a Sabermetric or other freethinker on baseball legitimately suggest that a lefty could play 3B/SS/2B well enough. If I ran OOTP, I'd make sure they couldn't adequately play there until someone succeeded at least in the high minors or really notably succeeded at the college level.

[joefromchicago]

I doubt that the game differentiates between a left-handed and a right-handed third baseman (or catcher or shortstop or second baseman), but the game doesn't create left-handed third basemen (or catchers, etc.). So if you want a left-handed third baseman, you'll need to convert an outfielder or first baseman, and that's not very easy - but then it's not easy converting a right-handed first baseman or outfielder either. As a result, I don't think the game distinguishes between right-handers and left-handers in terms of ability, but it's still very unusual to see a left-handed third baseman in OOTP.

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

I doubt that the game differentiates between a left-handed and a right-handed third baseman (or catcher or shortstop or second baseman), but the game doesn't create left-handed third basemen (or catchers, etc.). So if you want a left-handed third baseman, you'll need to convert an outfielder or first baseman, and that's not very easy - but then it's not easy converting a right-handed first baseman or outfielder either. As a result, I don't think the game distinguishes between right-handers and left-handers in terms of ability, but it's still very unusual to see a left-handed third baseman in OOTP.

Well the guy I just drafted and converted certainly has the raw infielder stats necessary to be a competent third baseman even though he is a lefty and was created as a first baseman by the game. Will be interesting to see how he progresses.

[joefromchicago]

I'll be interested to see how successful you are at converting him. Keep us posted.

[Dyzalot]

Here is is about 13 months after being drafted.

[ra7c7er]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

I doubt that the game differentiates between a left-handed and a right-handed third baseman (or catcher or shortstop or second baseman), but the game doesn't create left-handed third basemen (or catchers, etc.). So if you want a left-handed third baseman, you'll need to convert an outfielder or first baseman, and that's not very easy - but then it's not easy converting a right-handed first baseman or outfielder either. As a result, I don't think the game distinguishes between right-handers and left-handers in terms of ability, but it's still very unusual to see a left-handed third baseman in OOTP.

The game does create lefty catchers and 3B they are just rare. When it does create them though they are extremely good. I posted the only lefty catcher in my league (over 2000 total players including FA) in the post about this in the talk sports thread.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

Here is is about 13 months after being drafted.

What do his defense stats look like? His DP rating is low at 8, i'd give him 2-3 more seasons before it goes low enough for him to lose his rating at 3B.

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by The Game

What do his defense stats look like? His DP rating is low at 8, i'd give him 2-3 more seasons before it goes low enough for him to lose his rating at 3B.

He's only 19. Why would his DP rating start to drop at such a young age? Here's what he looks like this year, not sure why it won't show his fielding stats from last year.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by ra7c7er

The game does create lefty catchers and 3B they are just rare. When it does create them though they are extremely good. I posted the only lefty catcher in my league (over 2000 total players including FA) in the post about this in the talk sports thread.

I can't recall ever seeing a lefty in OOTP at the traditionally right-handed positions (3B, 2B, SS, C), but then I never really paid that much attention to it. I'll keep my eyes on that from now on.

[ra7c7er]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

I can't recall ever seeing a lefty in OOTP at the traditionally right-handed positions (3B, 2B, SS, C), but then I never really paid that much attention to it. I'll keep my eyes on that from now on.

I never paid attention to it either till that thread. I went through every one of the test leagues I still had saves for probably totalling 9,000-10,000 total players looking for lefty players. I found some probably 20-30 infielders (generally rated pretty good) but only one lefty catcher who happened to be in the league I was playing at the time. He had a catastrophic injury before I found him though so his stats were skewed. Before the injury he was a 3 time all-star and 2 time gold glover. after the injury his ratings dropped so much the AI made him a first basemen and in just a couple more years he was a unsignable FA.

Since at least from my looking into it lefty non-1B infielders seem to be on the top end of position players perhaps the game does have something built in. Like if a lefty is at this position he's got to be top X percent of players.

Honestly the whole lefties aren't good enough thing is 100 year old thinking. With the way players train today and become so elite handedness hardly matters. Back 100 years ago the difference between a right handed guy playing third and a left handed guy playing third was probably a ton more.

[ConStar]

Originally Posted by ra7c7er

The game does create lefty catchers and 3B they are just rare. When it does create them though they are extremely good. I posted the only lefty catcher in my league (over 2000 total players including FA) in the post about this in the talk sports thread.

I've seen one lefty third baseman created, and he pretty much stunk except for contact rating and HR power. He had a 1.5-star max potential.

The weird issue I'm having right now is a bunch of rookie-league catchers getting released by AI teams, then when they show up in the free agent list, they're suddenly second basemen despite never having played there.before. Thinking the computer knew something I didn't, I've let a couple of those guys play their next stop as second basemen, but they've yet to develop. And they're making errors all over the place.

[ra7c7er]

Originally Posted by ConStar

I've seen one lefty third baseman created, and he pretty much stunk except for contact rating and HR power. He had a 1.5-star max potential.

The weird issue I'm having right now is a bunch of rookie-league catchers getting released by AI teams, then when they show up in the free agent list, they're suddenly second basemen despite never having played there.before. Thinking the computer knew something I didn't, I've let a couple of those guys play their next stop as second basemen, but they've yet to develop. And they're making errors all over the place.

Well there go that theory then. Perhaps lefties are just rare.

As for your issue. I've seen the game switch players positions to positions they are "best" at. It's probably what's happening but because they have no rating in that position they suck for a while.

[The Game]

Doesn't count but I have had several lefties in my EBL league. All were created by other PC games. I make them avg at best on defense when i put them in OOTP. Interesting though I have Jack Elliott as a clone of Norm Cash and he spent 3 yrs in the Tigers minor leagues as a SS. I'll pull up his stats later. Don't know why the AI moved Mr Baseball to SS or how much SS he played.

Edit: Listed as SS playing DH.

[ra7c7er]

Originally Posted by The Game

Doesn't count but I have had several lefties in my EBL league. All were created by other PC games. I make them avg at best on defense when i put them in OOTP. Interesting though I have Jack Elliott as a clone of Norm Cash and he spent 3 yrs in the Tigers minor leagues as a SS. I'll pull up his stats later. Don't know why the AI moved Mr Baseball to SS or how much SS he played.

Average at best? If you're going handicap them like that why not just move them to a different position. Nothing besides 100 year old ideals says a left handed player can't be elite at any position. Big difference between not being good and not getting a chance.