'16 Ratings Questions/Influences

ich2232 · 08-26-2015, 12:56 PM

This question is directed at Markus (who I'm assuming is the creator? Just started checking out the Forum and he seems to answer all the behind the scenes questions.) Any other opinions are welcome too though!

I was wondering about some of the Ratings in the Editor. I noticed Mike Trout's speed is low (without giving away exact numbers, he's a 55 on the 20-80 scale). I understand the in Game Rating is probably based on the fact that he has slowed down his steal attempts in the past few years, but as far as the Editor is concerned, I'm wondering if a lack of Statistics (SB's in this instant) will alter the actual Ratings for the Engine?

Everyone knows Mike Trout is one of the fastest players in the League. His statcast has him around 20.1-5 MPH when he steals, which is right up there with Dee Gordon (20.3-7ish MPH) and Billy Hamilton (21ish MPH). What I'm basically asking is, if Giancarlo Stanton only hits 20 HR's one/two years will his numbers in the Editor drop? So instead of his 75-80 power rating (and I'm not talking about AI evaluation either, I mean his actual Editor power number) will it dwindle to 65-60-55 and so on if he doesn't produce HRs?

Also, do the Ratings that appear in the Editor have an influence on how the Player will play the game? I know there is a Strategy portion in the game, but with the Mike Trout example, is he rated low in the Speed Category so that he won't attempt as many steals like IRL? I bumped him up to 75 speed and he just went off and stole every base. I did the same thing and bumped his Stealing Strategy down and got much more realistic results but it made me wonder about other players.

It also seemed that having his speed much higher than his power focused his game more on just getting On Base and stealing instead of hitting for Power. I also noticed some kind of correlation with other ratings as well. Higher doubles created a better AVG but didn't necessarily add Doubles/SLG, while a guy with High Power, High BABIP, Low Doubles seemed to be more like a .240-.250 hitter with a handful of HR's but nothing all that special.

I know there are a ton of factors that go into everything, and I know you want to keep some things secret to add to the realism. So without giving too much away can you tell me if I am I at least on the right track with my thinking?

Cinnamon J. Scudworth · 08-26-2015, 01:08 PM

Quote:

What I'm basically asking is, if Giancarlo Stanton only hits 20 HR's one/two years will his numbers in the Editor drop?

No, not necessarily. In OOTP, ratings drive performance. Ratings evolve over time based on the OOTP development model, which is not directly based on performance.

Lukas Berger · 08-27-2015, 11:16 PM

These are very good questions, and I want to answer them, but they're pretty complex and I haven't had time to do so.

So pretty much just bumping this for now. I'll get to this eventually unless Markus or Matt or someone else beats me to it

ich2232 · 08-30-2015, 11:37 AM

Thanks a lot! I appreciate it!

I've got so many questions and ideas lol, but y'all probably have a lot on your table.

If some of my ideas are correct then this might be the most realistic game I've ever played out of any genre on any console, everrr.

Without making y'all get too complex, is it possible that some of the morality/personality Ratings have an effect on whether a player plays better at Home/Away or if his Overall is higher than his Potential that might mean he's playing better than he is "supposed" to be playing? Or if he's a really greedy guy maybe he plays way better if he's an Upcoming Free Agent? And with Pitchers, if his one of his particular pitches is higher Overall than his Potential Pitch Rating, might that mean he is more likely to throw that pitch and vice versa (low pitch rating compared to the others maybe he doesn't throw that pitch as often?)

Like I said, y'all don't have to get too into it if you don't want to give too much away. I'd be happy with just Yes or No answers haha. I'm no coder by any means, and Math in general is pretty much beyond me haha. I like to pretend I know what's going on with that stuff though haha! But yea, if I'm even close to being right with some of those questions I think this game is pretty much going to blow my mind with Realism.

I played College baseball and have had some experience with trying out for Major League Affiliates. I'm a Coach now for an Academy that specializes in getting H.S. kids recruited to College/Pro and I've helped out a few times at Area Scouting Combines for the Kansas City Royals. Helped out as in got the field ready for BP, set up cones for the 60 yard dash, and basically carried all the bags for the actual Scout haha, the general B*** work. So one could say that I have some background knowing what goes on when a Scout evaluates players. If you guys have broken it down to a science where the Doubles Rating is basically correlated with a player's ability to drive the baseball with authority, and not just his ability to hit doubles, then you guys need to hired by every major Video Game company that produces Sports games!! Incredible stuff right there. Truly incredible!

battists · 08-30-2015, 12:05 PM

Basically, the ratings drive performance, and yes, the various personality ratings do have an influence on the game. However, for rather obvious reasons, Markus (yes he is the author of the game) isn't keen to share PRECISELY how things factor in. But obviously, for example, a greedy player is more likely to demand a large salary. Leaders help with clubhouse chemistry. People with good work ethic are more likely to improve, and so on. But just like real life, there's no real way to quantify how much of an impact these things have.

Another thing to note: if you are playing with real players, each of them have been rated "by hand" by a large team of volunteer "roster makers." So, at the end of the day, somebody just said "Trout is a 55 speed." There is crosschecking and so on, but it just seems like the roster team's opinion of his speed is less than yours. There's a thread where you can recommend changes to the rosters, although at this point they won't be releasing new rosters until the next version of the game. (You can always edit it yourself in your game.)

Welcome!

RchW · 08-30-2015, 02:33 PM

Ratings drive performance for sure but I think that is only one loop of three possibly five loops in the process. This is just my interpretation, I have no special knowledge.

Loop 1 at its simplest level is ratings =====> performance. I think it is way more complex than that and definitely includes times through the order and base/out states and other game situations including weather, day/night home/away etc.. I think that internally, player ratings in these game situations are not what we think they are.

Loop 2 feeds back performance to the development/aging engine. What I mean is that every player has a default or global career path that can be affected by performance. Significant deviations from the norm (luck either way) may generate boosts or degradation. A neutral performance may have no effect and the player may still experience boosts and degradation. Performance relative to level matters. Letting a prospect dominate at a lower level won't work automatically but allowing a prospect to struggle is documented as hurting development. This works on the other side of development. As a player ages good performances may suppress degradation bad performances may accelerate. I've seen players disappear from mlb then return at 28-30 as bench bats.

Loop 3 is TCR talent change randomness. A device to reduce predictability (duh

). A good prospect with good performance should develop and may be a superstar but it can't be 100% predictable either way or the game would be way too easy. My only beef with this loop is that good prospects declining seems almost too predictable. I'm still playing with this setting.

Loop 4 is injuries.It's pretty obvious that serious injuries or a series of repetitive injuries can suppress development and accelerate player decline. I'd like to see injury proneness ie wrecked or fragile be reversible. A player who makes it from 26 to 34 at the mlb level should not be wrecked he should be retired. Injuries are too random ie they should be more contextual. Nothing is more frustrating than having few injuries all season then getting 4-5 top players injured in September.

Loop 5 is personality/team chemistry. I'm not a proponent of these intangibles but it makes sense that a good work ethic/IQ player should be more likely to see loop 2 result in positive development/reduced aging. However I don't necessarily think that a talented player with lesser attributes should be penalized. Talent/skill should win most of the time.

This could be complete nonsense. It is an overview of how I see these segments interacting.

08-26-2015, 12:56 PM	#1
ich2232 Bat Boy Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 5	'16 Ratings Questions/Influences This question is directed at Markus (who I'm assuming is the creator? Just started checking out the Forum and he seems to answer all the behind the scenes questions.) Any other opinions are welcome too though! I was wondering about some of the Ratings in the Editor. I noticed Mike Trout's speed is low (without giving away exact numbers, he's a 55 on the 20-80 scale). I understand the in Game Rating is probably based on the fact that he has slowed down his steal attempts in the past few years, but as far as the Editor is concerned, I'm wondering if a lack of Statistics (SB's in this instant) will alter the actual Ratings for the Engine? Everyone knows Mike Trout is one of the fastest players in the League. His statcast has him around 20.1-5 MPH when he steals, which is right up there with Dee Gordon (20.3-7ish MPH) and Billy Hamilton (21ish MPH). What I'm basically asking is, if Giancarlo Stanton only hits 20 HR's one/two years will his numbers in the Editor drop? So instead of his 75-80 power rating (and I'm not talking about AI evaluation either, I mean his actual Editor power number) will it dwindle to 65-60-55 and so on if he doesn't produce HRs? Also, do the Ratings that appear in the Editor have an influence on how the Player will play the game? I know there is a Strategy portion in the game, but with the Mike Trout example, is he rated low in the Speed Category so that he won't attempt as many steals like IRL? I bumped him up to 75 speed and he just went off and stole every base. I did the same thing and bumped his Stealing Strategy down and got much more realistic results but it made me wonder about other players. It also seemed that having his speed much higher than his power focused his game more on just getting On Base and stealing instead of hitting for Power. I also noticed some kind of correlation with other ratings as well. Higher doubles created a better AVG but didn't necessarily add Doubles/SLG, while a guy with High Power, High BABIP, Low Doubles seemed to be more like a .240-.250 hitter with a handful of HR's but nothing all that special. I know there are a ton of factors that go into everything, and I know you want to keep some things secret to add to the realism. So without giving too much away can you tell me if I am I at least on the right track with my thinking? Last edited by ich2232; 08-26-2015 at 01:03 PM.

08-27-2015, 11:16 PM	#3
Lukas Berger OOTP Developments Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nice, Côte d'Azur, France Posts: 21,359	These are very good questions, and I want to answer them, but they're pretty complex and I haven't had time to do so. So pretty much just bumping this for now. I'll get to this eventually unless Markus or Matt or someone else beats me to it Last edited by Lukas Berger; 08-27-2015 at 11:17 PM.

08-30-2015, 12:05 PM	#5
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	Basically, the ratings drive performance, and yes, the various personality ratings do have an influence on the game. However, for rather obvious reasons, Markus (yes he is the author of the game) isn't keen to share PRECISELY how things factor in. But obviously, for example, a greedy player is more likely to demand a large salary. Leaders help with clubhouse chemistry. People with good work ethic are more likely to improve, and so on. But just like real life, there's no real way to quantify how much of an impact these things have. Another thing to note: if you are playing with real players, each of them have been rated "by hand" by a large team of volunteer "roster makers." So, at the end of the day, somebody just said "Trout is a 55 speed." There is crosschecking and so on, but it just seems like the roster team's opinion of his speed is less than yours. There's a thread where you can recommend changes to the rosters, although at this point they won't be releasing new rosters until the next version of the game. (You can always edit it yourself in your game.) Welcome! __________________ Come check out my dynasty report, Funky Times!

08-30-2015, 02:33 PM	#6
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	Ratings drive performance for sure but I think that is only one loop of three possibly five loops in the process. This is just my interpretation, I have no special knowledge. Loop 1 at its simplest level is ratings =====> performance. I think it is way more complex than that and definitely includes times through the order and base/out states and other game situations including weather, day/night home/away etc.. I think that internally, player ratings in these game situations are not what we think they are. Loop 2 feeds back performance to the development/aging engine. What I mean is that every player has a default or global career path that can be affected by performance. Significant deviations from the norm (luck either way) may generate boosts or degradation. A neutral performance may have no effect and the player may still experience boosts and degradation. Performance relative to level matters. Letting a prospect dominate at a lower level won't work automatically but allowing a prospect to struggle is documented as hurting development. This works on the other side of development. As a player ages good performances may suppress degradation bad performances may accelerate. I've seen players disappear from mlb then return at 28-30 as bench bats. Loop 3 is TCR talent change randomness. A device to reduce predictability (duh). A good prospect with good performance should develop and may be a superstar but it can't be 100% predictable either way or the game would be way too easy. My only beef with this loop is that good prospects declining seems almost too predictable. I'm still playing with this setting. Loop 4 is injuries.It's pretty obvious that serious injuries or a series of repetitive injuries can suppress development and accelerate player decline. I'd like to see injury proneness ie wrecked or fragile be reversible. A player who makes it from 26 to 34 at the mlb level should not be wrecked he should be retired. Injuries are too random ie they should be more contextual. Nothing is more frustrating than having few injuries all season then getting 4-5 top players injured in September. Loop 5 is personality/team chemistry. I'm not a proponent of these intangibles but it makes sense that a good work ethic/IQ player should be more likely to see loop 2 result in positive development/reduced aging. However I don't necessarily think that a talented player with lesser attributes should be penalized. Talent/skill should win most of the time. This could be complete nonsense. It is an overview of how I see these segments interacting. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit Last edited by RchW; 08-30-2015 at 02:35 PM.

08-30-2015, 11:37 AM	#4
ich2232 Bat Boy Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 5	Thanks a lot! I appreciate it! I've got so many questions and ideas lol, but y'all probably have a lot on your table. If some of my ideas are correct then this might be the most realistic game I've ever played out of any genre on any console, everrr. Without making y'all get too complex, is it possible that some of the morality/personality Ratings have an effect on whether a player plays better at Home/Away or if his Overall is higher than his Potential that might mean he's playing better than he is "supposed" to be playing? Or if he's a really greedy guy maybe he plays way better if he's an Upcoming Free Agent? And with Pitchers, if his one of his particular pitches is higher Overall than his Potential Pitch Rating, might that mean he is more likely to throw that pitch and vice versa (low pitch rating compared to the others maybe he doesn't throw that pitch as often?) Like I said, y'all don't have to get too into it if you don't want to give too much away. I'd be happy with just Yes or No answers haha. I'm no coder by any means, and Math in general is pretty much beyond me haha. I like to pretend I know what's going on with that stuff though haha! But yea, if I'm even close to being right with some of those questions I think this game is pretty much going to blow my mind with Realism. I played College baseball and have had some experience with trying out for Major League Affiliates. I'm a Coach now for an Academy that specializes in getting H.S. kids recruited to College/Pro and I've helped out a few times at Area Scouting Combines for the Kansas City Royals. Helped out as in got the field ready for BP, set up cones for the 60 yard dash, and basically carried all the bags for the actual Scout haha, the general B*** work. So one could say that I have some background knowing what goes on when a Scout evaluates players. If you guys have broken it down to a science where the Doubles Rating is basically correlated with a player's ability to drive the baseball with authority, and not just his ability to hit doubles, then you guys need to hired by every major Video Game company that produces Sports games!! Incredible stuff right there. Truly incredible!