DH rule help

MrBojangles · 05-21-2016, 12:44 PM

Can someone please explain the rule about substituting the DH? It seems that if you sub for him (even if he gets injured) you lose the DH in your lineup and the batter hits in that spot the rest of the game. Is that correct?
Why would the rule be like that?

Number4 · 05-21-2016, 01:15 PM

No, you can pinch-hit for, pinch-run for, substitute in case of injury etc. for the DH without losing the spot.

Matt Arnold · 05-21-2016, 01:22 PM

The key is that the DH is the spot, not the person. So if you move the DH to the field, you lose it. If you pinch hit or pinch run for them, whoever comes in is the new DH.

Why it's like that? Dunno.

RchW · 05-21-2016, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBojangles

Can someone please explain the rule about substituting the DH? It seems that if you sub for him (even if he gets injured) you lose the DH in your lineup and the batter hits in that spot the rest of the game. Is that correct?
Why would the rule be like that?

Substitution isn't the issue. He can be pinch hit for and pinch run for with no problem. However if you want the DH to play in the field then the current pitcher and any subsequent PH must hit in the replaced fielders spot in the order. If the DH becomes the pitcher all subsequent pitchers and PH will bat in the DH spot. You can't move the DH spot in the batting order via a double switch, but after losing the DH, double switches are allowed as there is no DH spot in the order.

mitchkenn · 05-21-2016, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBojangles

Why would the rule be like that?

MLB ... they must like convoluted rules.

One of these days i'm going to buy a rule book and see if i can understand it. i'm thinking it's going to be a mess of legalese, but i may be wrong.

battists · 05-21-2016, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitchkenn

MLB ... they must like convoluted rules.

One of these days i'm going to buy a rule book and see if i can understand it. i'm thinking it's going to be a mess of legalese, but i may be wrong.

Save yourself the money. I think you can find one online.

bwburke94 · 05-21-2016, 06:18 PM

My best explanation of the rule:

* The designated hitter's spot in the lineup cannot change, i.e. it is impossible to double switch the DH.
* If the DH moves to the field, the pitcher must bat in the spot of the replaced player.
* If the pitcher moves to the field, he must bat in the spot of the replaced player, and the DH is out of the game unless he simultaneously moves to the field.
* If a fielder or the DH moves to pitcher, the DH rights are forfeited, so if a new pitcher comes in he will have to bat for himself barring a pinch hitter.
* The pitcher is allowed to bat or run for the DH, and take the DH's spot in the lineup, provided the DH has batted at least once or the opposing team has changed pitchers.

OOTP doesn't allow some of the more obscure methods of DH forfeiture, and in fact didn't allow it at all until a few years ago.

battists · 05-21-2016, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitchkenn

One of these days i'm going to buy a rule book and see if i can understand it. i'm thinking it's going to be a mess of legalese, but i may be wrong.

Here you go btw.

Padreman · 05-21-2016, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

Here you go btw.

I tried using that know before but I don't think it has everything. Which is strange because it's the official MLB one. I know there's a rule that states how many coaches can be in uniform but that book did not specify

battists · 05-21-2016, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Padreman

I tried using that know before but I don't think it has everything. Which is strange because it's the official MLB one. I know there's a rule that states how many coaches can be in uniform but that book did not specify

Ah, can't help you beyond what I linked, sorry.

MrBojangles · 05-21-2016, 08:35 PM

Thanks for the explanation guys. Screwy rule.

To clarify - I had a fielder get injured and taken out of the game. My DH was the only other Active Roster guy with any talent at that position. But when I switched him from DH to fielding for the injured player - my pitcher had to bat in that spot the rest of the game.

Just seems odd.

RchW · 05-21-2016, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBojangles

Thanks for the explanation guys. Screwy rule.

To clarify - I had a fielder get injured and taken out of the game. My DH was the only other Active Roster guy with any talent at that position. But when I switched him from DH to fielding for the injured player - my pitcher had to bat in that spot the rest of the game.

Just seems odd.

That's not odd. That is the rule as I said in post 4. Read it!

MrBojangles · 05-22-2016, 01:59 AM

I get it that's the rule as written, and thank you for posting it.

I think the rule itself is odd. Not questioning OOTP, just learning a nuance of the game I didn't know before.

kq76 · 05-22-2016, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBojangles

Thanks for the explanation guys. Screwy rule.

To clarify - I had a fielder get injured and taken out of the game. My DH was the only other Active Roster guy with any talent at that position. But when I switched him from DH to fielding for the injured player - my pitcher had to bat in that spot the rest of the game.

Just seems odd.

What exactly do you find odd about it?

Is it that the pitcher's spot in the batting order changes to where the replaced player was playing while the DH continues batting in the lineup spot he started at? I think this makes sense because you can't otherwise switch where a guy bats in the lineup once it's already been submitted to the ump. Take for instance the example of not substituting in a new player, but switching the positions of two players in the game. If you had say the 3B in the first inning play 2B in the second inning and the 2B play 3B, they don't also switch places in the batting order. If you could switch where a guy bats in the lineup then you could move him up through the order getting him more plate appearances than others and I think they probably want guys to wait their turn.

Or do you find it odd that you don't get a new DH? They probably just wanted to limit it, not make the DH too strong. "You can use a DH, but once you switch that player to the field, you lose the privilege of a DH."

What I find odd is that they didn't tie the DH to the pitcher and force a new DH whenever you changed the pitcher. That makes sense to me because if you change who's playing defense for that spot in the order then you have to change who's playing offense for that spot too (e.g. if Smith comes in to play 3B for Jones and that's the only sub then Smith must also replace Jones in the batting order). But I guess they were worried they might burn through the bench too fast that way.

MrBojangles · 05-22-2016, 02:09 AM

What's odd to me is I can change pitchers out and I still have a pitcher performing as a pitcher. No detrimental affect.

I can substitute any fielding position with a guy from the bench and I still have a fielder (and corresponding position in the lineup). No detrimental affect.

I can substitute any fielding position I like with a guy from another fielding position - and backfill the first guys position with someone from the bench and I still end up with fielders and lineup spots as orchestrated. No detrimental affect.

But, if, like the situation I describe where I would like to have the guy that started the game as DH substitute for a fielding position, I now lose the bat in the lineup and have an AL game with a pitcher batting. This is a detrimental affect.

That is what is odd to me.

I still love baseball and OOTP and all. It's just an odd rule.

kq76 · 05-22-2016, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBojangles

What's odd to me is I can change pitchers out and I still have a pitcher performing as a pitcher. No detrimental affect.

I can substitute any fielding position with a guy from the bench and I still have a fielder (and corresponding position in the lineup). No detrimental affect.

I can substitute any fielding position I like with a guy from another fielding position - and backfill the first guys position with someone from the bench and I still end up with fielders and lineup spots as orchestrated. No detrimental affect.

But, if, like the situation I describe where I would like to have the guy that started the game as DH substitute for a fielding position, I now lose the bat in the lineup and have an AL game with a pitcher batting. This is a detrimental affect.

Eh, the way I look at it, it was an option added to the NL game and if you choose to change the DH to the field then you lose the option and revert back to the NL game. Besides, pitchers still rarely bat even in that scenario. When you switch the DH to the field, a manager will usually bring in a pinch hitter when that spot is next at bat and change the pitcher once the next half inning starts.

And sorry for being a grammar nazi, but you did it 4 times in one post. It's detrimental effect, not affect.

MrBojangles · 05-22-2016, 02:43 AM

I'll work on the grammar - I wouldn't want to negatively effect things

r0nster · 05-22-2016, 05:52 PM

the difference if you take a player out of the game then the DH is still in play but once you put that player in the field is the difference in how you lose the DH.

The DH was meant to be a substitute for the pitcher allowing them to pitch instead of worrying to hit to increase more offense back in the early 70s was the argument of the day and nobody cant say it didn't work. In the 70s it used to be used as a player in the sunset years as a player now it is used from rookie to retirement.

05-21-2016, 12:44 PM	#1
MrBojangles All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: low and inside Posts: 568	DH rule help Can someone please explain the rule about substituting the DH? It seems that if you sub for him (even if he gets injured) you lose the DH in your lineup and the batter hits in that spot the rest of the game. Is that correct? Why would the rule be like that?

05-21-2016, 01:15 PM	#2
Number4 Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 460	No, you can pinch-hit for, pinch-run for, substitute in case of injury etc. for the DH without losing the spot.

05-21-2016, 01:22 PM	#3
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 15,463	The key is that the DH is the spot, not the person. So if you move the DH to the field, you lose it. If you pinch hit or pinch run for them, whoever comes in is the new DH. Why it's like that? Dunno.

05-21-2016, 06:18 PM	#7
bwburke94 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Belchertown, MA, USA Posts: 4,480	My best explanation of the rule: * The designated hitter's spot in the lineup cannot change, i.e. it is impossible to double switch the DH. * If the DH moves to the field, the pitcher must bat in the spot of the replaced player. * If the pitcher moves to the field, he must bat in the spot of the replaced player, and the DH is out of the game unless he simultaneously moves to the field. * If a fielder or the DH moves to pitcher, the DH rights are forfeited, so if a new pitcher comes in he will have to bat for himself barring a pinch hitter. * The pitcher is allowed to bat or run for the DH, and take the DH's spot in the lineup, provided the DH has batted at least once or the opposing team has changed pitchers. OOTP doesn't allow some of the more obscure methods of DH forfeiture, and in fact didn't allow it at all until a few years ago.

05-21-2016, 08:35 PM	#11
MrBojangles All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: low and inside Posts: 568	Thanks for the explanation guys. Screwy rule. To clarify - I had a fielder get injured and taken out of the game. My DH was the only other Active Roster guy with any talent at that position. But when I switched him from DH to fielding for the injured player - my pitcher had to bat in that spot the rest of the game. Just seems odd.

05-22-2016, 01:59 AM	#13
MrBojangles All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: low and inside Posts: 568	I get it that's the rule as written, and thank you for posting it. I think the rule itself is odd. Not questioning OOTP, just learning a nuance of the game I didn't know before.

05-22-2016, 02:09 AM	#15
MrBojangles All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: low and inside Posts: 568	What's odd to me is I can change pitchers out and I still have a pitcher performing as a pitcher. No detrimental affect. I can substitute any fielding position with a guy from the bench and I still have a fielder (and corresponding position in the lineup). No detrimental affect. I can substitute any fielding position I like with a guy from another fielding position - and backfill the first guys position with someone from the bench and I still end up with fielders and lineup spots as orchestrated. No detrimental affect. But, if, like the situation I describe where I would like to have the guy that started the game as DH substitute for a fielding position, I now lose the bat in the lineup and have an AL game with a pitcher batting. This is a detrimental affect. That is what is odd to me. I still love baseball and OOTP and all. It's just an odd rule.

05-22-2016, 02:43 AM	#17
MrBojangles All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: low and inside Posts: 568	I'll work on the grammar - I wouldn't want to negatively effect things

05-22-2016, 05:52 PM	#18
r0nster Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 3,037	the difference if you take a player out of the game then the DH is still in play but once you put that player in the field is the difference in how you lose the DH. The DH was meant to be a substitute for the pitcher allowing them to pitch instead of worrying to hit to increase more offense back in the early 70s was the argument of the day and nobody cant say it didn't work. In the 70s it used to be used as a player in the sunset years as a player now it is used from rookie to retirement.