Otani and OOTP

[Jeffy25]

How will OOTP handle Otani signing in the MLB?

A true, 2-way player. Getting 20-30 starts and 200-400 PA. Will they allow this in the game?

[andyhdz]

I don't think they will since it's so rare you'll either have to make him a pitche or convert him to a position player.

[jpeters1734]

I am sure they are working very hard to make it right. at the same time, we don't know what exactly it'll look like. we all have expectations but we don't truly know

[thehef]

I'm just curious. Let's say Otani turns out to be a legit...

Originally Posted by Jeffy25

...true, 2-way player. Getting 20-30 starts and 200-400 PA...

Will he import with corresponding ratings for both pitching and hitting (and fielding, of course)? And would the problem thus be that AI won't be able to properly handle? But that if you are managing, setting lineups, etc., for his team, that he as a two-way would work just fine? Or is it more to it than that... fatigue issues, etc.?

[philthepat]

I've signed him, and then had him make 30 starts and DH for around 300 ABs...

He hit better than he pitched, interestingly...

[kq76]

Originally Posted by philthepat

I've signed him, and then had him make 30 starts and DH for around 300 ABs...

He hit better than he pitched, interestingly...

You had to manually make him do that, right?

[Matt Arnold]

I remember a couple years ago I was fooling around with a save, and made a "perfect" player (200+ in every category). I would basically sim a week, stick him as a starter for one game, then switch him back to a SS and have him play the field the rest of the week. I think I maxed out at about 22 WAR or so from him...

Of course, Ohtani isn't a gold glove SS. We'll watch things closely, and see what we can do to make sure the AI uses and values him "reasonably".

[OutS|der]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

I remember a couple years ago I was fooling around with a save, and made a "perfect" player (200+ in every category). I would basically sim a week, stick him as a starter for one game, then switch him back to a SS and have him play the field the rest of the week. I think I maxed out at about 22 WAR or so from him...

Of course, Ohtani isn't a gold glove SS. We'll watch things closely, and see what we can do to make sure the AI uses and values him "reasonably".

The AI has never been able to use a two way player. Set them as a pitcher and they aren't even an option in the lineup, Set them as a hitter and the AI will never use them as a Pitcher no matter how good they are.

You have to control the lineups yourself for it to work, even with a "perfect" player the AI has never been able to use them more then one way.
If possible make lineups see everyone as players and not pitcher/batter. AI take into account fielding/hitting for offence and look at pitcher ratings to set the rotation. Or make it so Pitchers are an option on offense, and Batters are considered by the AI to pitch

[TomVeal]

Originally Posted by OutS|der

The AI has never been able to use a two way player. Set them as a pitcher and they aren't even an option in the lineup, Set them as a hitter and the AI will never use them as a Pitcher no matter how good they are.

You have to control the lineups yourself for it to work, even with a "perfect" player the AI has never been able to use them more then one way.
If possible make lineups see everyone as players and not pitcher/batter. AI take into account fielding/hitting for offence and look at pitcher ratings to set the rotation. Or make it so Pitchers are an option on offense, and Batters are considered by the AI to pitch

The trouble with making that the AI player usage is that no real-world MLB manager has ever used it. Neither the Red Sox nor the Yankees had Babe Ruth both pitch and play in the outfield. The Dodgers occasionally had Don Newcombe pinch hit, but he was otherwise solely a pitcher. Martin Dihigo played both ways but unhappily was never able to enter the Majors. Perhaps Otani will lead to a change in perceptions, but for the moment he is a unicorn, and IMHO the AI ought to treat him (and other players with similar all-arounder possibilities) in accordance with some special algorithm that applies to no one else.

My own prediction is that Otani will wind up as more like Newcombe than Dihigo, i. e., a pitcher who can also hit decently. He ought to have signed with an NL club. (No, no, as a Chicagoan I'm not the tiniest bit bitter.)

[Cod]

Markus provided us a little insight (through an interview with CBS) on how Otani could be used in OOTP...

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/s...e-gets-to-mlb/

[kq76]

I'm not an Angels fan, but I really hope Ohtani turns out to be a two-way superstar. I suspect he won't, but I hope he does. I figure he'll turn out to be an above average pitcher and maybe even an average hitter, but that within 5 years he'll do one or the other, probably pitching, but not both.

I'm glad he went to an AL team for the simple possibility that we may see him bat more than we likely would have had he gone to the NL.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by TomVeal

Neither the Red Sox nor the Yankees had Babe Ruth both pitch and play in the outfield.

The Red Sox certainly did. In 1918 and 1919 Ruth would frequently start in the field when he wasn't pitching. And, of course, there were plenty of two-way players in the nineteenth century, especially before the modern substitution rule took effect in 1891.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

The Red Sox certainly did. In 1918 and 1919 Ruth would frequently start in the field when he wasn't pitching. And, of course, there were plenty of two-way players in the nineteenth century, especially before the modern substitution rule took effect in 1891.

1919 Ruth is probably the quintessential "2 way player" season.

[Matt Arnold]

I think someone (Jason Stark?) posted a fact that in the last 100 or so years, there's only been 4 times that someone has played at least 15 games each in the field and on the mound in a season in MLB. So yes, it certainly has happened in the past, but very uncommon.

Although with the Angels, it seems like they're not going to put him in the field often, if ever. He'll get his 40-50 games as DH, but I'd be surprised if he played more than a handful of games at 1B unless if they decide that Pujols really cannot play the field whatsoever. But this is also a team that ran out Pujols for 150 games last year as a DH, so the good news is that even if Ohtani struggles, he should get a lot of chances to get back and hit. Had he gone to a team like the Dodgers or Cubs, those AB might not exist anymore if he stuggled out of the gate. I would expect that was a big reason behind the decision.

[OutS|der]

Originally Posted by TomVeal

The trouble with making that the AI player usage is that no real-world MLB manager has ever used it. Neither the Red Sox nor the Yankees had Babe Ruth both pitch and play in the outfield. The Dodgers occasionally had Don Newcombe pinch hit, but he was otherwise solely a pitcher. Martin Dihigo played both ways but unhappily was never able to enter the Majors. Perhaps Otani will lead to a change in perceptions, but for the moment he is a unicorn, and IMHO the AI ought to treat him (and other players with similar all-arounder possibilities) in accordance with some special algorithm that applies to no one else.

My own prediction is that Otani will wind up as more like Newcombe than Dihigo, i. e., a pitcher who can also hit decently. He ought to have signed with an NL club. (No, no, as a Chicagoan I'm not the tiniest bit bitter.)

Make it a selectable option like using Starting Pitchers as Relievers.
While it's not accurate for an MLB manager ever to use them two ways, other leagues have and do so it should allow us that option.

[TomVeal]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

The Red Sox certainly did. In 1918 and 1919 Ruth would frequently start in the field when he wasn't pitching. And, of course, there were plenty of two-way players in the nineteenth century, especially before the modern substitution rule took effect in 1891.

I stand corrected. I'm not quite old enough to remember 1919 first hand.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by TomVeal

I stand corrected. I'm not quite old enough to remember 1919 first hand.

Why you young whippersnapper! If I get my hands on you I'll throttle you with my buggy whip, I will! Now get off my yard!

[Drstrangelove]

The problem is that the modern game isn't like the way Ruth and 1919 (and even less in 1918) was played.

The ball was dead in 1918 and half way through 1919 in the AL, the parks were huge, and putting mud, spit, grease, and even scratching or cutting a ball was common place. And balls weren't replaced. As a result, a pitcher could throw at far below maximum most of the time and save his juice for the best hitters or a critical situation. Ruth, himself, eventually refused to do both positions because he said it was too tiring.

So modern pitchers throw hard far more often and would necessarily mean that the exhaustion would be greater than what Ruth was responding to in his comments. In the 1800's, pitchers started and completed 50-60 games each year while also playing. One guy in 1884, started 75 games, pitched 684 innings, and still had time to play OF, 1B and SS in another 12 games.

[Cod]

How is Otani currently represented in OOTP? I haven't played an *** league yet, so I'm unsure.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by Drstrangelove

Ruth, himself, eventually refused to do both positions because he said it was too tiring.

I'm not disputing it, but I'd honestly love to read Ruth's thoughts on the topic. Do you remember the source?