Player fatigue

David Watts · 04-07-2018, 07:08 AM

Starting to see something that I've never noticed in past versions. I'm using average fatigue. Historical league in 1949. Just had Joe DiMaggio miss 5 games in a row due to fatigue. He very well may have missed 5 or 6 more if I didn't reset fatigue league wide, as his team did not have an off day for that many games. What I see happening is, a player gets tired and the AI sits him as it should to give him a rest. Problem is, Joe's a stud, so the AI is going to use him as a pinch hitter. That pinch hit at bat is enough to ensure Joe stays tired.

Anyone else seeing this?

DCG12 · 04-07-2018, 07:49 AM

Yeah I just started seeing this the last couple days in my random debut league. Seems like half the hitters are tired every day. Playing a few games in a row seems to cause fatigue.

I agree that the pinch hitting is cancelling rest also. I just had Wally Backman show up as tired so I sat him out two games in a row but did use him to pinch hit for the pitcher and he is more tired now (58%) then when I first sat him.

Catchers are even worse Jonathan Lucroy showed up as tired on June 3 so I sat him but used him as a pinch hitter ( I have 3 catchers) on 6/4,6/5,6/6 and 6/7. realizing that he wasn't recovering I sat him out completely until 6/13 which is when he finally showed 100%

David Watts · 04-07-2018, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCG12

Yeah I just started seeing this the last couple days in my random debut league. Seems like the half the hitters are tired every day.

I agree that the pinch hitting is cancelling rest also. I just had Wally Backman show up as tired so I sat him out two games in a row but did use him to pinch hit for the pitcher and he is more tired now (58%) then when I first sat him.

Catchers are even worse Jonathan Lucroy showed up as tired on June 3 so I sat him but used him as a pinch hitter ( I have 3 catchers) on 6/4,6/5,6/6 and 6/7. realizing that he wasn't recovering I sat him out completely until 6/13 which is when he finally showed 100%

So my eyes didn't deceive me. I thought DiMaggio's tired percentage went up after a pinch hit at bat, but wasn't completely sure.

DCG12 · 04-07-2018, 08:12 AM

Also this doesn't seem to affect fictional leagues. I have a 25 year old 14 team fictional league and everyone in the league except pitchers is 100% rested.

DCG12 · 04-07-2018, 08:34 AM

I did report this in the beta forum. We'll see what Markus and Matt say

Reed · 04-07-2018, 09:38 AM

Recently completed straight historical, 1901, 3 year recalc double weighted. Each team plays at least 4 times during season 12 games in a row. Normally 7-10 games in a row. 146 game schedule. Use average fatigue, injuries off. Sam Crawford started 139 games and Ed Delahanty started 138 Games. N. Lajoie at 2nd base started 134 games.

DCG12 · 04-07-2018, 10:20 AM

Reed
I'm not sure but I assume you're taking the position that you don't see an issue. If that's the case I would point out that games started doesn't completely address the issues. I have at least a dozen AI controlled players who are showing 0% rested but the AI keeps starting them. I have never seen a player be 0% rested before even a pitcher after a complete game.

actionjackson · 04-07-2018, 03:45 PM

I think I can confirm that this is happening in my league too. It's a test league, so I've been simming (so I can't say it with 100% confidence), but check out Roy Campanella (highlighted), Alex Avila, and Corey Seager in this list of the top position players by WAR from the most recently concluded season. Campy started 17 fewer games than he played in, Avila started in 12 fewer games than he played in, and Seager started 14 fewer games than he played in. A check of all of their game logs for that season shows runs of games where they were only being used as pinch hitters, which prolonged the need for rest into the next game, when they were used as pinch hitters again. Lather, rinse, repeat. I don't know what the answer is here, but maybe the player should be given a full day off when they're fatigued?

DCG12 · 04-07-2018, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjackson

I think I can confirm that this is happening in my league too. It's a test league, so I've been simming (so I can't say it with 100% confidence), but check out Roy Campanella (highlighted), Alex Avila, and Corey Seager in this list of the top position players by WAR from the most recently concluded season. Campy started 17 fewer games than he played in, Avila started in 12 fewer games than he played in, and Seager started 14 fewer games than he played in. A check of all of their game logs for that season shows runs of games where they were only being used as pinch hitters, which prolonged the need for rest into the next game, when they were used as pinch hitters again. Lather, rinse, repeat. I don't know what the answer is here, but maybe the player should be given a full day off when they're fatigued?

But they shouldn't need the full day off. There was a problem like this a few years ago and after a bit of discussion Markus fixed it so that a single pinch hit at bat (and any base running from that at bat) did not affect fatigue.

Somehow it has reared its head again.

By the way in the beta bug report I posted Spritze and Ktulu have confirmed similar results

actionjackson · 04-07-2018, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCG12

But they shouldn't need the full day off. There was a problem like this a few years ago and after a bit of discussion Markus fixed it so that a single pinch hit at bat (and any base running from that at bat) did not affect fatigue.

Somehow it has reared its head again.

By the way in the beta bug report I posted Spritze and Ktulu have confirmed similar results

I'm agreeing wholeheartedly with you. Just trying to back you up. Just thinking out loud as to what might be going on. Not suggesting that it's right, just saying that's what I think is happening. I can't remember who it was off the top of my head, but somebody else posted about this, and I did write it off as the player needing a full day off. Now I'm with you guys. At some point that fatigue should be resetting. I saw one of the guys I mentioned in my above post pinch-hit five days in a row. Surely that's enough rest, but nope.

actionjackson · 04-08-2018, 02:24 PM

Barry Larkin had 24 fewer GS than G in 1938. Roberto Alomar had 22 fewer GS than G in 1939. Not only is this happening to catchers, it's happening to very good baseball players. David Watts had it happen with Joe DiMaggio and Stan Musial I believe. I hope this gets addressed in time for the patch on Monday.

David Watts · 04-08-2018, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Barry Larkin had 24 fewer GS than G in 1938. Roberto Alomar had 22 fewer GS than G in 1939. Not only is this happening to catchers, it's happening to very good baseball players. David Watts had it happen with Joe DiMaggio and Stan Musial I believe. I hope this gets addressed in time for the patch on Monday.

I've moved down to low fatigue for the time being.

DCG12 · 04-08-2018, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Barry Larkin had 24 fewer GS than G in 1938. Roberto Alomar had 22 fewer GS than G in 1939. Not only is this happening to catchers, it's happening to very good baseball players. David Watts had it happen with Joe DiMaggio and Stan Musial I believe. I hope this gets addressed in time for the patch on Monday.

I'm not holding out hope for tomorrow's patch. I posted it in the beta forum with a link to this thread as well as posting it in the official bug listing where it was confirmed by two other people and so far it's been nothing but crickets from the powers that be.

r0nster · 04-08-2018, 02:54 PM

many versions of this game has had every position have fatigue issues with exceptions of 3B 1B and DH as you can get a run of 162 games played out of them but C has the lowest of fatigue I have seen as even in OOTP19 the "rule" still applies for all positions as stated above

jeter6970 · 04-08-2018, 02:55 PM

Yes, I've seen this as well, and I've seen this in a past version as well, but it's been a VERY long time.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=128708

dodger300 · 04-09-2018, 05:54 PM

Just finishing up my season using 18. I was going to convert to 19 in off season. I don't want to start a new season until this is taken care of. Was this taken care of in latest patch? If not I sure hope this is addressed soon, this is a game killer for me.

actionjackson · 04-09-2018, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dodger300

Just finishing up my season using 18. I was going to convert to 19 in off season. I don't want to start a new season until this is taken care of. Was this taken care of in latest patch? If not I sure hope this is addressed soon, this is a game killer for me.

Nope. Not as far as I know. It would've been noted I would think.

Lukas Berger · 04-11-2018, 10:51 AM

Looks like Markus figured out the issue here. We should have a hotfix out tomorrow!

clamel · 04-11-2018, 02:28 PM

Hotfix, great. Will the Jorge Posada issue be fixed too in this

Lukas Berger · 04-11-2018, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clamel

Hotfix, great. Will the Jorge Posada issue be fixed too in this

Nope, not as far as I know.

04-07-2018, 07:08 AM	#1
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 10,108 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Player fatigue Starting to see something that I've never noticed in past versions. I'm using average fatigue. Historical league in 1949. Just had Joe DiMaggio miss 5 games in a row due to fatigue. He very well may have missed 5 or 6 more if I didn't reset fatigue league wide, as his team did not have an off day for that many games. What I see happening is, a player gets tired and the AI sits him as it should to give him a rest. Problem is, Joe's a stud, so the AI is going to use him as a pinch hitter. That pinch hit at bat is enough to ensure Joe stays tired. Anyone else seeing this?

04-07-2018, 07:49 AM	#2
DCG12 All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Traveling through another dimension-not one of only sight and sound,but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land whose boundries are those of imagination. Posts: 1,161	Yeah I just started seeing this the last couple days in my random debut league. Seems like half the hitters are tired every day. Playing a few games in a row seems to cause fatigue. I agree that the pinch hitting is cancelling rest also. I just had Wally Backman show up as tired so I sat him out two games in a row but did use him to pinch hit for the pitcher and he is more tired now (58%) then when I first sat him. Catchers are even worse Jonathan Lucroy showed up as tired on June 3 so I sat him but used him as a pinch hitter ( I have 3 catchers) on 6/4,6/5,6/6 and 6/7. realizing that he wasn't recovering I sat him out completely until 6/13 which is when he finally showed 100% Last edited by DCG12; 04-07-2018 at 07:54 AM.

04-07-2018, 03:45 PM	#8
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,181	I think I can confirm that this is happening in my league too. It's a test league, so I've been simming (so I can't say it with 100% confidence), but check out Roy Campanella (highlighted), Alex Avila, and Corey Seager in this list of the top position players by WAR from the most recently concluded season. Campy started 17 fewer games than he played in, Avila started in 12 fewer games than he played in, and Seager started 14 fewer games than he played in. A check of all of their game logs for that season shows runs of games where they were only being used as pinch hitters, which prolonged the need for rest into the next game, when they were used as pinch hitters again. Lather, rinse, repeat. I don't know what the answer is here, but maybe the player should be given a full day off when they're fatigued? Attached Images Last edited by actionjackson; 04-07-2018 at 03:46 PM.

04-11-2018, 10:51 AM	#18
Lukas Berger OOTP Developments Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nice, Côte d'Azur, France Posts: 22,021	Looks like Markus figured out the issue here. We should have a hotfix out tomorrow! __________________ lukas@ootpdevelopments.com Pre-Order Out of the Park Baseball 27! Need to upload files for us to check out? Instructions can be found here Last edited by Lukas Berger; 04-11-2018 at 10:57 AM.

04-07-2018, 08:12 AM	#4
DCG12 All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Traveling through another dimension-not one of only sight and sound,but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land whose boundries are those of imagination. Posts: 1,161	Also this doesn't seem to affect fictional leagues. I have a 25 year old 14 team fictional league and everyone in the league except pitchers is 100% rested.

04-07-2018, 08:34 AM	#5
DCG12 All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Traveling through another dimension-not one of only sight and sound,but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land whose boundries are those of imagination. Posts: 1,161	I did report this in the beta forum. We'll see what Markus and Matt say

04-07-2018, 09:38 AM	#6
Reed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 2,584	Recently completed straight historical, 1901, 3 year recalc double weighted. Each team plays at least 4 times during season 12 games in a row. Normally 7-10 games in a row. 146 game schedule. Use average fatigue, injuries off. Sam Crawford started 139 games and Ed Delahanty started 138 Games. N. Lajoie at 2nd base started 134 games.

04-07-2018, 10:20 AM	#7
DCG12 All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Traveling through another dimension-not one of only sight and sound,but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land whose boundries are those of imagination. Posts: 1,161	Reed I'm not sure but I assume you're taking the position that you don't see an issue. If that's the case I would point out that games started doesn't completely address the issues. I have at least a dozen AI controlled players who are showing 0% rested but the AI keeps starting them. I have never seen a player be 0% rested before even a pitcher after a complete game.

04-08-2018, 02:24 PM	#11
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,181	Barry Larkin had 24 fewer GS than G in 1938. Roberto Alomar had 22 fewer GS than G in 1939. Not only is this happening to catchers, it's happening to very good baseball players. David Watts had it happen with Joe DiMaggio and Stan Musial I believe. I hope this gets addressed in time for the patch on Monday.

04-08-2018, 02:54 PM	#14
r0nster Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 3,083	many versions of this game has had every position have fatigue issues with exceptions of 3B 1B and DH as you can get a run of 162 games played out of them but C has the lowest of fatigue I have seen as even in OOTP19 the "rule" still applies for all positions as stated above

04-08-2018, 02:55 PM	#15
jeter6970 Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2004 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 69	Yes, I've seen this as well, and I've seen this in a past version as well, but it's been a VERY long time. http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=128708

04-09-2018, 05:54 PM	#16
dodger300 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 268	Just finishing up my season using 18. I was going to convert to 19 in off season. I don't want to start a new season until this is taken care of. Was this taken care of in latest patch? If not I sure hope this is addressed soon, this is a game killer for me.

04-11-2018, 02:28 PM	#19
clamel All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Across the Pond Posts: 1,042	Hotfix, great. Will the Jorge Posada issue be fixed too in this