Development: Learning new positions / switching pitching roles / learning new pitches / stretching

[Qeltar]

Sorry more questions. I really do try to find the answers to this stuff but sometimes it's not entirely clear.

1. The manual says Spring Training is a better-than-normal time to try to get a position player to learn a new position. Does this also apply to switching an RP to SP (or vice-versa) or learning new pitches?

2. Is there any way to increase the chances of a pitcher learning a new pitch?

3. Is there any way to "stretch" an RP to increase his stamina? Will using him as a starter do this, or is it just pure lolrandom?

4. What happens when a player has good general defensive values but low position-specific defense? I have a guy with infield range, error and arm of 55/60/50 which seems at least adequate to play passable 2B. (My defense is not very good, I don't have high standards.) But he has no rating for 2B.

a. Can I play him there anyway without him booting everything?
b. Will he eventually get a rating there if I do?
c. Will a player with a 20 position-specific rating improve over time if played there? (Regular season.)

5. (This is a bit tangential.) Do ratings go up and down based on performance, or do they just happen randomly and that affects performance? Bit of a "chicken and egg" in my mind here.

Thanks.

[saturn2187]

1. The manual says Spring Training is a better-than-normal time to try to get a position player to learn a new position. Does this also apply to switching an RP to SP (or vice-versa) or learning new pitches?


You don't need to "teach" being a SP or RP. You simply toggle their position and boom, it's done. No amount of "training" will improve their skill level specific to being a SP/RP

2. Is there any way to increase the chances of a pitcher learning a new pitch?


Some may reach and say development budget, but generally the answer is no. It's random.

3. Is there any way to "stretch" an RP to increase his stamina? Will using him as a starter do this, or is it just purely random?


Purely random.

4. What happens when a player has good general defensive values but low position-specific defense? I have a guy with infield range, error and arm of 55/60/50 which seems at least adequate to play passable 2B. (My defense is not very good, I don't have high standards.) But he has no rating for 2B.



That means he has no experience at the position. The rating you see is a combination of base ratings (range, error, arm, DP) combined with experience. I believe you need around 2000 innings played to max out on experience. With zero experience, player will have zero rating.

a. Can I play him there anyway without him booting everything?


He will boot everything at first, but get up to speed quickly (even quicker in ST)

b. Will he eventually get a rating there if I do?


Yes

c. Will a player with a 20 position-specific rating improve over time if played there? (Regular season.)


Depends. If its based on not having experience, than yes it will improve. However, if his underlying ratings (range, etc.) are terrible, no amount of experience will improve that position rating.

5. (This is a bit tangential.) Do ratings go up and down based on performance, or do they just happen randomly and that affects performance? Bit of a "chicken and egg" in my mind here.


The latter.

Thanks.


You're welcome.

[IanIachimoe]

FWIW, I've had Dominic Smith playing 3B for almost an entire year (w/o much problem) & he hasn't gained any experience at 3B. not sure why.

[NoOne]

IanIachimoe,

defensive ability or experience?

the 3b defensive rating will change with experience relative to fielding ability (if range, arm, if error etc)..

his raw infield fielding raitngs won't often change and more likely to go down than up due to aging/time etc. think it's only TCR-related chagnes, but may not be the case for 17-18 year olds etc. in generla this stuff trends down or maintains, rarely increases, so most likely TCR related with increases.

you can only see the raw Exp ratings in editor.. so, if his 3b rating isn't goin up anymore, he's likely 200/200 for that position and he is as high as he will go without a TCR event.

----------------
Original question:

1) don't think ST gives a bump to leraning, but there's no drawback to your win/loss column - or at least a win you care about. just a benefit the guy isn't making errors in a regular season game... but maybe there is a bump to gaining exp, who knows but it'd be a small bump, nonetheless.

better to make sure they learn different positions while in MiL... force them to start at various position until their Defensive Rating at that position doens't increase anymore.. then move to next cross-potions training you want them to have. you won't lose experience as you switch.

also, like i mentioned above in reply to IanIachimoe, defensive ratings like OF/IF range aren't going to change simply by playing them at CF or SS. that's basicalyl their ceiling unless a Talent Change Randomness-even occurs (TCR settings 100/200 is default - found in Global Settings)

2)

it is completely random.. some things influence the probabilty, but even so the probability remains low.. check manual to verify: Intelligence will increase the rate of a new pitch learned. develoment budget is a rising tide, almost certain has an influence, even if it amounts to something as small as less than 1% improvement of the chance.

basically, never expect it to happen.. if it does happen, it's most likely a very poorly rated pitch.. in the rare event it's a useable pitch and it calls for a role change, go ahead and convert them to SP.

postulation: a 3rd+ pitch (*once it exists only! see '*' below) may develop better as a SP than an RP -- *** this is a total guess not based on anything but perceived common sense.

*i would not assume it increases chances of a 3rd pitch magically appearing (learned new pitch). So, don't take RP and force start as SP in hopes it occurs based on what i said above. i am not saying that. but if they gain a third pitch that isn't a "junky" potential value, move them to SP etc.

3) stamina rating will only change due to aging(negative effect) and TCR from what i see. akin to how i explained defensive abilities like OF/IF range or OF/IF arm etc.

i have seen guys slowly tick up, but it's more often going to go down... and les slikely 'development' related and more likely TCR related.

4)

if a rating for a position isn't visible it is because he doesn't have some hard-coded minimum for it to show up -- it doesn't preclude him from being decent...

however, a position like SS/2b needs turn double play -- more so at 2b than ss.

3b has some low threshold for turn db, but does have a threshold. it is around "25/200" or 35/200 for Turn DP (convert to your scale)... if they have high range, high arm, high avoid errors in the infield, i simply don't care if "3b" doesn't show up due to a lower turn DP... they will perform just fine.

so, a little common sense can be used here if a position isn't "visible"... i'd be wary of a second baseman that has a turn db so low that the "2nd base" postion isn't shown in profile for defense. maybe if it's a point or two below the threshold??? even so i'd be wary.

with the example you gave having middling defensive ability at best for a 2b and not having a high enough turn dp.. that's probably a no-go for me. stop-gap measure out of desperation? meh, sure... but something that should have been avoided, even so.. but, if it's not team going to playoffs, who cares. get the guy playing time if he's important to future -- more likely a 1st-basement if he can't turn a DP and has a weak-ish arm. (*assumes he isn't terribly short)

so he'll be ~average as far as range and normal things, but won't turn as many DP... really hard to quantify this per player from a small sample size... plus, you'd need to know a baseline for dp to compare in order to know if it's "too far off" to allow.

if the rating doesn't show up, it probably won't ever... unless his turn DP increases, which isn't something you can expect without great luck. really the only position i would allow them to play when it doesn't show up is 3b, but that's an opinion... 3rd basement don't "turn" many dp.. (starting a dp is not "turning" a dp - that's relating to catch and releasing quickly)

5)

i think defensive metrics do influence defensive ratings -- check manual... i am recalling a reply by an ootp-agent in the forums.. memory could be wrong. it's a small effect. based on ai-evalutiaon settings just like offense. -- if not the actually position ratings you see, then the ovrerall for that player. check manual and old forum posts for that minutiea. it affects what you see for 'something' lol. i know that.

[IanIachimoe]

Originally Posted by NoOne

IanIachimoe,

defensive ability or experience?

the 3b defensive rating will change with experience relative to fielding ability (if range, arm, if error etc)..

his raw infield fielding raitngs won't often change and more likely to go down than up due to aging/time etc. think it's only TCR-related chagnes, but may not be the case for 17-18 year olds etc. in generla this stuff trends down or maintains, rarely increases, so most likely TCR related with increases.

you can only see the raw Exp ratings in editor.. so, if his 3b rating isn't goin up anymore, he's likely 200/200 for that position and he is as high as he will go without a TCR event.

Thanks. didn't explain myself well enough, not sure how. it doesn't show any rating for 3B (never did). figured after a year he would be at least 20. played fairly well considering no rating at the position. his range, arm, error hasn't changed (from what I've seen, could be wrong).

kinda feel like I'm bending the rules by playing him out of position. was hoping he would gain a little bit there & ease my mind is all.

[NoOne]

you aren't bending a rule.

if oyu look in editor i bet his "turn DP is below ~35/200.

you could verify if this is the cause.. just remember to change the value back to the original... bump "turn dp" upto "100/200" or flesh out the actual threshold needed if you want, and i bet it shows up after a re-scout. (force rescout from leauge settings after the change if it doesn't update immediately in player profile)

the moment that have 1 esperience, it shoudl show 1/xx defensive rating for that position.. the only time it doesnt is when they do not have the minimum of each defensive rating required for that postion.

3rd base doesnt' turn many DP.. they start them, sure, but don't turn them.. .no biggie and that's why the threshold is so low -- something like 25 to 35 / 200.

just how much wors is a lower turn dp? not many position can succeed as well as 3b if the game doesn't show it as a position even after they gain experience there.

of needs a all 3 of abilties.. not all IF need the turn dp rating. 3b probably shouldnt even have a threshold for it at all. it's so low, that being terrible at turn dp or a bit worse than terrible at turn dp really doesn't matter.

[Syd Thrift]

I'm almost positive that spring training position changes *do* get a bump in points learned per day. It's something like double the "experience points" learned (XP being the position "rating" the game tracks behind the scenes, which gets used in conjunction with the other ratings to determine how good a player is at the position overall, and which you can see in the editor). After ST is over of course you can send a guy down to the minors and *there* I believe the position learning is at the normal level but with the bonus that you aren't wasting major league innings on him.