Top Prospects in the Low Minors

[nymetsfan5]

Something that frustrates me is how a top prospect will be in rookie ball as a 21 y/o when he was drafted at 18 y/o or a 23 y/o in A ball. Then they get called up straight from A+ or AA ball. Is there a way to change this?

[jimmysthebestcop]

Its actually not that unheard of in current MLB. Top players skip AAA or advance quickly with a brief stay in AA. Probably a handful this year.

But in my file I use real MiLB service time and roster sizes. So they either have to progress or get released/traded.

AAA: None
AA: None
A+: 5 Years
A: 4 Years
A-: 3 Years
Rookie: 2 Years
DSL: 3 Years

Roster Size:
AAA: 25
AA: 25
A+: 25
A: 25
A-: 35
Rookie: 35
DSL: 35

A, and A+ actually use I think a 10 man reserve roster. But that's not an option I chose just to play with 25 but it might be a little low. I was thinking of just using 30 for those leagues.

I would suggest making sure you have the USA Independent Leagues active at the very least. Just like IRL all of those cut/released players need a place to play instead of being on the free agent list until they retire.

There is decent movement between Indy's and MLB/MiLB to warrant it in the game. You might have cut that 18 year old 30th round draft pick when he was 19 but now he is 21 in Indy ball and he hit a development cycle and looks like he can go pro by 25. Then you can buy him back.

Or the washed up 35 year MLB player trying to get it back on the Indy circuit and you need a backup team captain to ride the bench.

1 note is even with daily lineups and promotions/demotions delegated to the AI I usually have between 75-100 players locked in my minors and I take full control. Typically because I want to get them learning multiple positions.

But also if you have a good minor league system it will create log jams at AAA/AA. Even after you protect everyone from Rule 5 you won't have room to carry players especially if you promote those 16 year old International players right away. They will have 5 service years when they are 21.

So I routinely have to trade away 24-26 year old quality prospects for younger guys. I don't really see the AI cutting any huge current prospects. They might cut someone and 2 years he pops but same thing will happen to you.

[BadluckinOOTP]

I notice that top 15 picks, 21 or 22 years old, will spend a year and a half in rookie ball getting 400 at bats and OPSing 1.100 or so. Not a very natural progression, sometimes.

[NoOne]

the fewer rules and restrictions you use, the better off the ai is at that stuff.

you will still see some guys wallowing in rookie and short A for 2-3 years putting up better than bonds-ian numbers, but it's inevitably less than when restrictions cause players to be pulled down compared to ability due to the potential lack of players that meet the requirements.

that being said some rules may help too. i would worry less about what happens in RL and more about how to skew the AI to do more of what you want to see.

i'm about to test something new: 2 rookies leagues, i'll make one a 20 (or 21?) and under with no service time max and the other rookie league soley restricted by service time -- "1" is my preference for a rookie league (that allows 2 years).

until we can use an "or" logic with age and service time, i think that provides the best answer for rookie level restrictions.

by AA or AAA i will only set a max age. disparate ages of draftees and new players makes setting these rules a bit difficult. you are more likely to cause problems than solve any if you don't think them through.

however you do it, plan for about ~10 players per draft, per team that do not have to follow those rules and still provide enough to fill the MiL system.

ie if you allow 2 years in rookie leagues, you better have enough rounds (minus 10) in two years that can fill all your rookie teams. (plus a few extra from iafa and scouting discoveries, but that can be a safety net extra)

[SirMichaelJordan]

Originally Posted by nymetsfan5

Something that frustrates me is how a top prospect will be in rookie ball as a 21 y/o when he was drafted at 18 y/o or a 23 y/o in A ball. Then they get called up straight from A+ or AA ball. Is there a way to change this?

Set service time and age limits if you really want to get strick. Works fine if you leave off roster limits.


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[OutS|der]

Be very careful setting roster limits for the minors. It leads the AI to do dumb things like release all top prospects and stuff.

[nutt]

Originally Posted by OutS|der

Be very careful setting roster limits for the minors. It leads the AI to do dumb things like release all top prospects and stuff.

What about setting Age Restrictions on Short-A? I've always been keen on doing so with that, making the max age be 27 years old. Same for Low-A at 29.

[jimmysthebestcop]

Originally Posted by nutt

What about setting Age Restrictions on Short-A? I've always been keen on doing so with that, making the max age be 27 years old. Same for Low-A at 29.

I like service time over age limit just like IRL. It is possible to pick up 24 year olds with no pro service time. Or someone from Indy with low service time who is say 27-28. Don't want age limits on those guys.

I've had no problems with service time and roster limits. I've only seen the AI so far release people they dont believe in maybe they pop in 1 or 2 years but they aren't waiting to find out.

Happens to humans and real teams all the time too. Hate it when I see a prospect and I cut him 3 years ago because his 1st three years on my rookie league he did nothing. But it also kind of makes it fun.

I wouldn't put any limits if you don't have at least Indy ball and some foreign leagues active. They would all released players have no place to play.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Originally Posted by nutt

What about setting Age Restrictions on Short-A? I've always been keen on doing so with that, making the max age be 27 years old. Same for Low-A at 29.

It’s fine. If you decided to set age limits in AA to keep it from getting old, just set it to a 26 year old minimum or at a age where they would typically reach minor league FA.

Only restriction that cause AI problems is roster size specifically at the lowest level.


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[andyhdz]

Definitely the Indy leagues work great with the MLB universe and any good strategy is to periodically look at Indy players for purchasing. You won't find the next Mike Trout there but you can get some decent help sometimes just like in real life.

The international leagues though I've found is hit or miss. Yes it's great to see that so-so MLB player tear it up in the Korean, Japanese and Mexican leagues just like IRL but you get very little movement of international players to the bigs with the posting and free agency process once the leagues turn completely fictional. I had to up the creation modifiers for international players closer to the default 1.0 rating to try and nug them along the MLB.

[nutt]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

I like service time over age limit just like IRL. It is possible to pick up 24 year olds with no pro service time. Or someone from Indy with low service time who is say 27-28. Don't want age limits on those guys.

I've had no problems with service time and roster limits. I've only seen the AI so far release people they dont believe in maybe they pop in 1 or 2 years but they aren't waiting to find out.

Happens to humans and real teams all the time too. Hate it when I see a prospect and I cut him 3 years ago because his 1st three years on my rookie league he did nothing. But it also kind of makes it fun.

I wouldn't put any limits if you don't have at least Indy ball and some foreign leagues active. They would all released players have no place to play.

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

It’s fine. If you decided to set age limits in AA to keep it from getting old, just set it to a 26 year old minimum or at a age where they would typically reach minor league FA.

Only restriction that cause AI problems is roster size specifically at the lowest level.


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Wouldn't this block guys on rehab assignments? I tend to send some guys to Hi/Lo-A or AA for rehab, pending on the severity and length of time off.

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by nutt

Wouldn't this block guys on rehab assignments? I tend to send some guys to Hi/Lo-A or AA for rehab, pending on the severity and length of time off.

it shouldn't.

the only way it will block guys is if there are too few and due to age restrictions it will force them 'down' to fill that level out of neccessity.

simpler is better... whatever you do.

rule of thumb: multiply (# of picks - 10) by least number of years you allow at any level as dictated by rules and make sure it's enough players including injuries and such. -- that minus 10 is for more advanced players to have space to advance freely)

if there are 3 rookie teams, it nees to fill 3 full teams and injuries etc. (most teams of any ML team at any level). if you intend to only allow "2" years, you will need ~50 rounds per year = (~90+10) / 2). (**discoveries would supplement Rookie level only** i have them off, so ~40 rounds might work with those on and 3 rookie leagues to fill in 2 years)

i like service time as the main rule for the early years -- same reasons as given above. but, i use a combination of age and service time at most levels, though. by 'main rule' i make age less restrictive but still exists for a reason. e.g. short A set to "23" or "24" i leave rookie just as "1 service year" or 2 playable. can't do that with default real mlb mil setup -- too many teams and 39 rounds not enough.

i think age works better for AA/AAA. by that time it's less about service time and simple about whether they improved or not realtive to age affecting % lieklyhood of future development. i want them to finish up at AAA not aa, right? ~26 should give them ~2 years at AAA before they are "as-is" quality, regardless of potential and nearing 100%. service time starts to become irrelevant except for whether you need to protect on 40-man or not.

i also use "26" for AA, but anything near there likely works just as well. need more in AAA, set it lower... need more in AA, set it higher. i know i don't have problems with my rules because when i sort by age at SA/A/AA the max age is a very small portion of team. no error messages. plenty of players for injuries. (over abundance is a good thing, not a bad thing like many posts in forum make it out to be)

once you have a set of rules, glance over ai teams (roster and transactions screen can help here -- all in one visual). you can make minor adjustments to even it out or make it what you want to see. after you make any chagnes you'll want to give it a once over each year for a few years. you'll see the min/max ranges that results per level and whehter you get the "too few players" error.

In the end, i'm starting to think of just letting it go feral and not worrying about it.

[SirMichaelJordan]

I just realized that I actually recently went with just service time in AA. Went with 6 years so that a few older players can play as in reality but cut service time to 6 years to match final year of minor league FA to keep the league young.

Also went with 10 year service time for AAA as i was seeing life time minor leaguers who should have moved on to the indies or overseas...


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[andyhdz]

Just remember 6 years service limit is actually 7 since it will allow players with 6 years plus in the league. You'd have to set it to 5 to limit players that have more than 6 years of service. And I'm surprised you are seeing old minor league players in AAA. Sure I'll see some 4A players with some MLB and minor league time that bounce back and forth but it's rare to see any career minor league players ala Crash Davis. Usually they'll retire or move on. Do you have the full Indy leagues setup?

[SirMichaelJordan]

Originally Posted by andyhdz

Just remember 6 years service limit is actually 7 since it will allow players with 6 years plus in the league. You'd have to set it to 5 to limit players that have more than 6 years of service. And I'm surprised you are seeing old minor league players in AAA. Sure I'll see some 4A players with some MLB and minor league time that bounce back and forth but it's rare to see any career minor league players ala Crash Davis. Usually they'll retire or move on. Do you have the full Indy leagues setup?

5 years they will be released before being eligible for free agency 6 years will forced those AA free agents to play AAA making the league younger. I have full indies plus the leagues that aren’t in the game and i see career minor leaguers who never seen MLB service time. These players bounce around AAA every year. For some reason the game love signing old minor league players over young Minot leaguers.


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[bigd51]

Originally Posted by andyhdz

Just remember 6 years service limit is actually 7 since it will allow players with 6 years plus in the league. You'd have to set it to 5 to limit players that have more than 6 years of service.

This is true, if I get what you're saying.

A players service time is represented on his profile as [Years], [Days]... but apparently, the service time limits set in League Settings only takes the [Years] into account, but doesn't recognize the [Days]. So, to the CPU, 2 years, 113 days service time is the same as 2 years, 0 days. Which is why a player can play in the league until his service time reaches 3 years, 0 days service time before the 2 year max service setting pushes them out.

2 years max service time limit = 3 years, 0 days in actuality
3 years max service time limit = 4 years, 0 days
etc.
etc.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For me, I use service time with no roster size limits:

DSL, GCL, and Arizona Rookie Leagues: 2 years max

Pioneer and Appalachian Rookie Leagues: 3 years

A- Leagues: 4 years

A Leagues: 5 years

A+ Leagues: 5 years

AA and AAA Leagues: No Service Time Limit


These have been working fairly well for me, but like others here, I've also had issues w/ how the AI manages their MiL systems. I don't like seeing 21 year old's drafted in the top-10 only in A+ after 3 years when their ratings and stats both warrant them a spot in AAA at the least, but to be fair, I haven't been able to come up w/ a possible fix or a way to at least mitigate the poor logic.

Dansby Swanson and Kris Bryant were drafted 1st and 2nd overall, respectively, in their drafts. Both players were 21.

Swanson skipped rookie altogether and started in A-. The following season, he played through A+ and AA before skipping AAA altogether and joining the main roster for the end of the MLB season. The following season, not even 2 full seasons since being drafted, he was starting on the main roster at age 23.

Bryant soared through Rookie, A- and A+ his first year, played in AA and AAA his second year, and not even 2 full seasons since being drafted like Swanson, was a starter on the main roster at 23.

Joey Bart, drafted 2nd overall by the Giants this season at 21 years old, has played in only 12 games in the minors so far and is already in A-. They seem to be taking a similar route.

Same for Brendan McCay, Nick Senzel, Corey Ray, Kyle Wright, Alex Bregman, Dillon Tate, Carlos Rodon, Kyle Shwarber, and the list goes on and on.

If you look at the real life progression through the minors for top-5, 21 year old prospects, the vast majority of these guys spend very little time in Rookie leagues and nearly all of them are at least in A/A+ ball, if not AA/AAA, the following season after being drafted.

Yet, in the game, these same types of guys will languish on an AI's team in Rookie and Single A for the first 3-4 years and won't reach the main roster until they're 24-25. The logic IRL is this; if you draft a 21 year old in the top-5, or even top-10, you're drafting him w/ the hopes he's on the verge of being, or already is, MLB ready. So he's fast tracked through the minors to get to the main roster ASAP. You don't draft a 21 year old in the top 5 to keep in the minors until he's 24 or 25.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Originally Posted by bigd51

This is true, if I get what you're saying.

A players service time is represented on his profile as [Years], [Days]... but apparently, the service time limits set in League Settings only takes the [Years] into account, but doesn't recognize the [Days]. So, to the CPU, 2 years, 113 days service time is the same as 2 years, 0 days. Which is why a player can play in the league until his service time reaches 3 years, 0 days service time before the 2 year max service setting pushes them out.

2 years max service time limit = 3 years, 0 days in actuality
3 years max service time limit = 4 years, 0 days
etc.
etc.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For me, I use service time with no roster size limits:

DSL, GCL, and Arizona Rookie Leagues: 2 years max

Pioneer and Appalachian Rookie Leagues: 3 years

A- Leagues: 4 years

A Leagues: 5 years

A+ Leagues: 5 years

AA and AAA Leagues: No Service Time Limit


These have been working fairly well for me, but like others here, I've also had issues w/ how the AI manages their MiL systems. I don't like seeing 21 year old's drafted in the top-10 only in A+ after 3 years when their ratings and stats both warrant them a spot in AAA at the least, but to be fair, I haven't been able to come up w/ a possible fix or a way to at least mitigate the poor logic.

Dansby Swanson and Kris Bryant were drafted 1st and 2nd overall, respectively, in their drafts. Both players were 21.

Swanson skipped rookie altogether and started in A-. The following season, he played through A+ and AA before skipping AAA altogether and joining the main roster for the end of the MLB season. The following season, not even 2 full seasons since being drafted, he was starting on the main roster at age 23.

Bryant soared through Rookie, A- and A+ his first year, played in AA and AAA his second year, and not even 2 full seasons since being drafted like Swanson, was a starter on the main roster at 23.

Joey Bart, drafted 2nd overall by the Giants this season at 21 years old, has played in only 12 games in the minors so far and is already in A-. They seem to be taking a similar route.

Same for Brendan McCay, Nick Senzel, Corey Ray, Kyle Wright, Alex Bregman, Dillon Tate, Carlos Rodon, Kyle Shwarber, and the list goes on and on.

If you look at the real life progression through the minors for top-5, 21 year old prospects, the vast majority of these guys spend very little time in Rookie leagues and nearly all of them are at least in A/A+ ball, if not AA/AAA, the following season after being drafted.

Yet, in the game, these same types of guys will languish on an AI's team in Rookie and Single A for the first 3-4 years and won't reach the main roster until they're 24-25. The logic IRL is this; if you draft a 21 year old in the top-5, or even top-10, you're drafting him w/ the hopes he's on the verge of being, or already is, MLB ready. So he's fast tracked through the minors to get to the main roster ASAP. You don't draft a 21 year old in the top 5 to keep in the minors until he's 24 or 25.

This is why you should also set age limits alone side service time. Everything works, just leave roster size limits to none


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[bigd51]

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

This is why you should also set age limits alone side service time. Everything works, just leave roster size limits to none


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This may move them up the minors faster, but it won't stop the AI from leaving them in AA and/or AAA for too long before adding them to the main roster. I've seen the Yankees option Gleyber Torres to AAA for 3 straight years before making him a starter on the main roster at 24 years old.

In my current league, in year 2040, the top prospects list looks like this after the season:

Batters

- Average age of top-20 prospects: 22
- Average age of all top prospects who reached the main roster during this season (16 total): 24
- Average age of top prospects in AAA (4 total): 24
- Average age of top prospects in AA (3 total): 23
- Average age of top prospects in A-, A, and A+ (12 total): 21

Pitchers

- Average age of top-20 prospects: 23
- Average age of all top prospects who reached the main roster during this season (22 total): 24
- Average age of top prospects in AAA (1 total): 22 (This just happens to be one of my players)
- Average age of top prospects in AA (0 players): N/A
- Average age of top prospects in A-, A, and A+ (22 total): 22

As you can see, the AI seems to only want to call guys up to the main roster permanently when they reach a certain age (usually 23-25), regardless of stats or ratings, while showing zero awareness to team needs, how high they were drafted, and their age when drafted.