Team Charity

[Woodman19]

In a few games I have noticed a player may approach the team about starting a charity, the issue I have is that giving anything to the charity seems to boost fan loyalty but drop market size. I am curious, does the increase in fan loyalty warrant the drop in market size? When I play a small market team I am nervous about dropping to tiny size. Does anyone have any input on this "problem"?

[thklein]

Wait, is this true? Does starting a charity decrease market size? That makes no sense. The city of Chicago doesn't get smaller because the Cubs start a charity. I always assumed it would just lessen your budget, as money going to charity means less money for baseball operations.

[Woodman19]

Originally Posted by thklein

Wait, is this true? Does starting a charity decrease market size? That makes no sense. The city of Chicago doesn't get smaller because the Cubs start a charity. I always assumed it would just lessen your budget, as money going to charity means less money for baseball operations.

In the few times I have tracked it (4-5) it seems that starting a large charity gives you +10 fan interest, +1 loyalty and -1 market size with the $2 million option.
+5 fan interest, +1 fan loyalty, -1 market size. I recently did it with the Marlins and it dropped my market size from Small to Tiny.

More so, what is the economic ramifications of +1 loyalty vs. -1 market size?

I should note I have not ever turned it down so I'm unsure of the consequences, but it feels like a bug to reduce the market size?

Edit: for anyone who checks, the effects of the charity dont hit until a few days after choosing when the charity begins.

[thklein]

Maybe changing market size is the game's way of accounting for the financial impact of starting a charity? It might explain why my market size in Chicago is currently average.

Do AI controlled teams have issues like this? Are computer controlled teams starting charities and seeing their market size reduced as a result?

[Woodman19]

Originally Posted by thklein

Maybe changing market size is the game's way of accounting for the financial impact of starting a charity? It might explain why my market size in Chicago is currently average.

Do AI controlled teams have issues like this? Are computer controlled teams starting charities and seeing their market size reduced as a result?

That I don't know, I'm curious on the financial aspect of +1 fan loyalty vs. -1 market size.

[jimmysthebestcop]

This makes zero sense. Sounds like it's completely broken. Hasn't happened to me in ootp 21 as of yet. But previous versions yes but I never was looking for anything to take note of.

It shouldn't make market size smaller at all. That is complete nonsense and needs to be fixed.

[Woodman19]

It's a killer for me, in my current Marlins game I had a reduction in market size after the first year down to 2, mid way through the second season I took the middle ground charity option when it came up which dropped me down to market size 1 and had my owner present me with a $67 million budget the next season. With my staff costs ($11 mil), scouting($20) and development budget ($14) it's leaving me with a hefty $22 million Payroll limit which means a 40 man roster of all pre-arb players.

[jimmysthebestcop]

Originally Posted by Woodman19

It's a killer for me, in my current Marlins game I had a reduction in market size after the first year down to 2, mid way through the second season I took the middle ground charity option when it came up which dropped me down to market size 1 and had my owner present me with a $67 million budget the next season. With my staff costs ($11 mil), scouting($20) and development budget ($14) it's leaving me with a hefty $22 million Payroll limit which means a 40 man roster of all pre-arb players.

Yeah it just happened to me in Philly and market size went from very big (8) to big (7). Fan Loyalty went 6 to 7.

This event makes absolutely zero sense. It is almost impossible to every raise market size. You could win 10 WS in a row and your market size won't go up. A couple winning season has a chance to increase loyalty though.

So why would you ever want to set up a charity? And why does setting up a charity decrease market size? I mean it has absolutely nothing to do with market size that mostly has to do with the city population and income levels.

It probably should just increase fan interest and not even change loyalty. They setup a charity and sell more tickets because of all the donations and group ticket events. I know IRL Philly they scroll through all of the charity event groups during the game on the big screen.

So yeah a big charity should increase interest for a certain period of time.

Decreasing market size?????? This has to be a bug/glitch because it doesn't follow any mlb logic.

Someone really needs to let us know if this is intended behavior of the story and if so then why? And also inform us if the AI teams go through this?

Only way for me to tell is to load up a new mlb quickstart and compare all the market sizes to my market sizes I guess. Unless someone else knows a quicker way?

If this gimps the AI teams then it is super bad news.This plus the owner controls budget option that someone else pointed out this week on the forum are really showing how certain settings completely gimp the AI.

Honestly I am just starting to feel like turning off storylines, owner goals, team chemistry, and personality. I already turned off owner controls budget that is a huge AI gimp. I love these concepts but they are borderline broken at this point. We don't need any mechanics that NERF the AI. And it seems like anything outside of the number crunching NERFS the AI.

[thklein]

Maybe the charity you start benefits LGBTQ causes and a million right wingers move out of town in protest. . .

[kcroyalty29]

Lol lol lol Klein. That’s amazing.

[jimmysthebestcop]

Originally Posted by Woodman19

It's a killer for me, in my current Marlins game I had a reduction in market size after the first year down to 2, mid way through the second season I took the middle ground charity option when it came up which dropped me down to market size 1 and had my owner present me with a $67 million budget the next season. With my staff costs ($11 mil), scouting($20) and development budget ($14) it's leaving me with a hefty $22 million Payroll limit which means a 40 man roster of all pre-arb players.

Just go into commish mode and team settings and change your market size back.

Hopefully you aren't in challenge mode which is another simple mechanic that is borderline broken.

[jpeters1734]

considering marketsize affects attendance, it should not work that way.

Also market size does not equal city size. Market size should really be called "Size of fanbase" or even "Media Money Power", which is why the Cubs have a high market size where the White Sox do not. Same for the Yankees vs the Mets

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

This makes zero sense. Sounds like it's completely broken. Hasn't happened to me in ootp 21 as of yet.

Happens in 21

[Big Phesta]

Originally Posted by thklein

Maybe the charity you start benefits LGBTQ causes and a million right wingers move out of town in protest. . .

haha

but its been my experience the ones who support the LBGTQ+ issues are the most likely to "take their ball and go home" if someone says something they don't like.

[LeftHandPath]

I can confirm that a team charity gives you + 1 fan loyalty and -1 markez size.
For me, that does not make any sense.
It would be interesting to know how team charities are intended to work.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Probably just an error in the storyline file where it mistakenly added a modifier to market size whenever this story happens.

You can always check the file (and even adjust it yourself) and maybe report it as a bug. It might be something that was overlooked.

[RchW]

Seems like this is broken and should be fixed.

[Matt Arnold]

So, there's no way to directly affect finances from storylines, so having multiple choices with no penalty on each and just letting you choose the size of your reward doesn't make sense. So in that sense, decreasing the market size is basically the "penalty" for the increased loyalty and interest bonuses.

[Boomcoach]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

So, there's no way to directly affect finances from storylines, so having multiple choices with no penalty on each and just letting you choose the size of your reward doesn't make sense. So in that sense, decreasing the market size is basically the "penalty" for the increased loyalty and interest bonuses.

I guess I had always assumed that it cost an amount of money from team finances, either as a one shot cost, or a longer term commitment and increased player happiness and team loyalty.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

So, there's no way to directly affect finances from storylines, so having multiple choices with no penalty on each and just letting you choose the size of your reward doesn't make sense. So in that sense, decreasing the market size is basically the "penalty" for the increased loyalty and interest bonuses.

Then suggest dropping the feature.