From Injured List to Retired to Another team in day

Brad K · 07-08-2020, 07:58 AM

Oct 12 66, Dick Hall is on the injured list for an injury to last.9 months from May 66 meaning he wouldn't be healed until Feb 67. (Source: player history)

October 12 66, Hall retired. (Source: e mail to PIT GM and player history)

Hall had a contract that owed him $130k for 66 and 67 meaning he still had a year to go. (Source: player history)

Oct 12 66 Hall shows up in the PHI minor league system with a minor league contract. (Source: player profile)

Hall is listed as having been acquired by PHI in a trade with PIT April 9 65 (Source: Player profile)

He was actually traded from DET to PIT on April 9 65 (Source: player history and trade log) with DET retaining 55% of salary (Source: trade log).

File uploaded MLB 51 Oct 66 Dick Hall.zip

Brad K · 07-26-2020, 11:43 PM

Still happens with new build 71. Bob Moose had a career ending injury in 1970 and has come back twice.

Lukas Berger · 07-27-2020, 05:03 AM

We'll take a look at this!

Caridnals-BK · 07-31-2020, 10:24 AM

I've seen the same thing since minor league evolution was enabled a few versions ago.

One thing I hadn't seen, and I wanted to add my file here was the players who returned after retiring show up in my "Designated for Assignment" area. But I don't remember seeing them there until today. I play this league 1 game a day. There are 6 players in total and I'm the GM of the Cardinals.

Zip File is called: Retirees-Returning-to-Teams.lg

The league is set to "Automatically Expand League"; "Import & Maintain Real Minor Leagues"; I use the development engine and do not Recalc. I do not have "Retire players according to history" or "Players miss according to history" selected.

I feel like I would have seen them sooner, but I could be wrong. The 6 players in my DFA all retired after the '29 or '30 season. All are listed with a team from my organization and in real life, played for that team.

Hopefully this file can add additional help.

Edit to Add: These players in DFA have 0 days remaining, but do not hold the league/day up from continuing. They are stuck with 0 days remaining.

Like I started, I've seen this since the introduction of minor league evolution and happens either at the start of the offseason, or when the minor league affiliations shift. It's like the game find players in the database who played in the upcoming season and if doesn't find them in the league, re-imports them to the team or organization they played for that season. If it's searching for the player ID in the league, it's skipping searching for the ID in the retired players... I think...

I've seen it with minor leaguers, and with major leaguers. In another league, Stan Musial retired after '58, but was returned in '59.

I hope this can help figure out why the retired players are returning.

Brad K · 08-01-2020, 09:39 AM

Do you have rookies set to go to their historical teams?

Caridnals-BK · 08-02-2020, 08:15 AM

No. My pre-65 leagues I have the rookies become free agents. And then draft beginning in 65.

I’ve seen the returning retired players using both rookie import ways.

Brad K · 08-02-2020, 09:35 AM

Just wondering. In my game players have gone back to their historical break in teams and I wondered if the problem was related to the historical rookies setting. Thanks.

Caridnals-BK · 08-03-2020, 09:25 AM

You’re welcome!

Lukas Berger · 08-04-2020, 07:57 AM

We were able to find out what's going on here and there should be a fix in the next patch.

Caridnals-BK · 09-22-2020, 10:09 AM

Players are still retiring and then returning to their next season organization.

I upgraded to the new patch this morning, 6.81, and then advanced to the offseason in my league that just completed 1959.

When I hit the date when the minor leagues updated, I had 6 retirees show up on my team. 5 retired following the '59 season, 1, Luke Easter, retired after the '57 season.

Files zipped and uploaded as "Retirees-Still-Returning-to-Teams.lg"

Lukas Berger · 09-22-2020, 11:16 AM

It's likely that a player needs to actually have retired under the current patch before the fix works. So if those players retirements had triggered previously, what you're seeing may just be expected behavior.

If you make a backup and sim ahead to the next year, do you still see the same thing happening with the players that newly retire there?

Caridnals-BK · 09-22-2020, 12:32 PM

I patched first and then proceeded to the Offseason.

I will sim ahead to see how it goes.

Edit to add: So except for Easter (and one of the minor leaguers) all had retired on the new patch.

hefalumps · 09-22-2020, 12:41 PM

I've had this happen for a few versions now.

For example, if I advance from 1959 to 1960, anyone in the ML who was playing in 1960 in real life but had retired in my league (either due to injury or ineffectiveness) would suddenly reappear on their real life 1960 teams' DFA list. I'd have to manually re-retire all of them - it was a pain.

I got around this by unchecking "import real rookies" when advancing from postseason to offseason, then immediately rechecking it after. This made the problem go away, and since I was importing real rookies for a draft and not onto their real teams, the correct "debut" players would import when the draft rolled around. But if you are setup to import rookies to their real teams, this workaround is no good because it will keep ALL players from importing - the ones that had retired AND the rookies making their debut.

I originally thought my issue was due to the fact that I'd been importing this league from much older versions of OOTP (probably back around OOTP14 or OOTP15), and so I think the player ID format changed somewhere in the middle there. My theory was that the game was seeing players with the new player ID format that played on Team A in 1960, didn't see that player ID as part of my league, and imported the player - even though that player with his old player ID had already retired. I never investigated more to find out if that theory was correct, because once I found the workaround I mentioned above, I let it go.

Is this league you're playing with one that you've been playing through several OOTP versions and could potentially still be using and old player ID format?

Caridnals-BK · 09-22-2020, 12:52 PM

The league that I'm posting about here was started with v.20 last November/December.

hefalumps · 09-22-2020, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caridnals-BK

The league that I'm posting about here was started with v.20 last November/December.

Well, so much for my theory.

Hope the devs get it figured out - I'm still on OOTP20 but will be migrating that same league to 21 once the final patch is "finalized".

Caridnals-BK · 09-22-2020, 01:21 PM

Semi-quick Simmed through the '60 season (stayed as GM/let bench coach set lineups) and players unretired again.

One difference was the minor leagues evolved on the first day of the offseason, not a week or two afterwards. Might relate to when the minor league season are complete. In '59, the American Association playoffs lasted until late October.

First image is the e-mail I received about Musial retiring.

Second is the image of my DFA area.

Both images are from the same day, October 14.

My working theory (not sure if I shared it here or elsewhere) is that the database checks for players missing and then reimports them, but doesn't check the retired players list/database. But I don't know the ins and outs of the mechanics of the game. Just a theory.

Hope this helps!

Lukas Berger · 09-22-2020, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caridnals-BK

Semi-quick Simmed through the '60 season (stayed as GM/let bench coach set lineups) and players unretired again.

One difference was the minor leagues evolved on the first day of the offseason, not a week or two afterwards. Might relate to when the minor league season are complete. In '59, the American Association playoffs lasted until late October.

First image is the e-mail I received about Musial retiring.

Second is the image of my DFA area.

Both images are from the same day, October 14.

My working theory (not sure if I shared it here or elsewhere) is that the database checks for players missing and then reimports them, but doesn't check the retired players list/database. But I don't know the ins and outs of the mechanics of the game. Just a theory.

Hope this helps!

Ok, thanks! We'll check on this some more.

Matt Arnold · 09-22-2020, 01:36 PM

Those players that unretired, did they originally retire due to injury or did they simply retire due to other reasons? I believe the main part of the fix only affected players who retired due to injury.

Caridnals-BK · 09-22-2020, 01:45 PM

Regular reitrement. Musial didn't perform like in real life (I'm using the development engine and not recalc) and retired after declining performance in '58, '59, and in the quick test in '60.

I don't think the players reintroduced are being re-rated. Musial finished '59 with a 4 contact talent (I play talent only, no ratings), and finished the test in '60 with a 3 contact talent. The unretired Musial in '60 has a 3 contact talent, which doesn't really fit with how he played in his final 3 seasons. Don't know if that's helpful/applicable, but I thought I'd add it.

Edit to add: I don't think any of the 8 players I saw this afternoon retired due to injury, just players stuck in minors, or old age (baseball age...)

hefalumps · 09-22-2020, 02:30 PM

Not sure if what I had been seeing is related to this or not, but my retired players who were re-appearing in DFA were both injury-related and performance related retirees - guys who didn't play as well in my alternate universe as they did in real life so they hung it up sooner.

Good luck looking into this issue! It might be awhile before I get to my offseason and migrate to OOTP21 (I play out all my games), but when I do, I'll leave the "import real rookies" button checked and see if I end up with retirees in the DFA and post back.

07-08-2020, 07:58 AM	#1
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,606 Infractions: 0/2 (3)	From Injured List to Retired to Another team in day Oct 12 66, Dick Hall is on the injured list for an injury to last.9 months from May 66 meaning he wouldn't be healed until Feb 67. (Source: player history) October 12 66, Hall retired. (Source: e mail to PIT GM and player history) Hall had a contract that owed him $130k for 66 and 67 meaning he still had a year to go. (Source: player history) Oct 12 66 Hall shows up in the PHI minor league system with a minor league contract. (Source: player profile) Hall is listed as having been acquired by PHI in a trade with PIT April 9 65 (Source: Player profile) He was actually traded from DET to PIT on April 9 65 (Source: player history and trade log) with DET retaining 55% of salary (Source: trade log). File uploaded MLB 51 Oct 66 Dick Hall.zip

07-27-2020, 05:03 AM	#3
Lukas Berger OOTP Developments Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nice, Côte d'Azur, France Posts: 21,193	We'll take a look at this! __________________ lukas@ootpdevelopments.com PreOrder Out of the Park Baseball 26! Need to upload files for us to check out? Instructions can be found here

07-31-2020, 10:24 AM	#4
Caridnals-BK Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 69	I've seen the same thing since minor league evolution was enabled a few versions ago. One thing I hadn't seen, and I wanted to add my file here was the players who returned after retiring show up in my "Designated for Assignment" area. But I don't remember seeing them there until today. I play this league 1 game a day. There are 6 players in total and I'm the GM of the Cardinals. Zip File is called: Retirees-Returning-to-Teams.lg The league is set to "Automatically Expand League"; "Import & Maintain Real Minor Leagues"; I use the development engine and do not Recalc. I do not have "Retire players according to history" or "Players miss according to history" selected. I feel like I would have seen them sooner, but I could be wrong. The 6 players in my DFA all retired after the '29 or '30 season. All are listed with a team from my organization and in real life, played for that team. Hopefully this file can add additional help. Edit to Add: These players in DFA have 0 days remaining, but do not hold the league/day up from continuing. They are stuck with 0 days remaining. Like I started, I've seen this since the introduction of minor league evolution and happens either at the start of the offseason, or when the minor league affiliations shift. It's like the game find players in the database who played in the upcoming season and if doesn't find them in the league, re-imports them to the team or organization they played for that season. If it's searching for the player ID in the league, it's skipping searching for the ID in the retired players... I think... I've seen it with minor leaguers, and with major leaguers. In another league, Stan Musial retired after '58, but was returned in '59. I hope this can help figure out why the retired players are returning. Last edited by Caridnals-BK; 07-31-2020 at 10:37 AM.

08-04-2020, 07:57 AM	#9
Lukas Berger OOTP Developments Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nice, Côte d'Azur, France Posts: 21,193	We were able to find out what's going on here and there should be a fix in the next patch. __________________ lukas@ootpdevelopments.com PreOrder Out of the Park Baseball 26! Need to upload files for us to check out? Instructions can be found here

09-22-2020, 11:16 AM	#11
Lukas Berger OOTP Developments Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nice, Côte d'Azur, France Posts: 21,193	It's likely that a player needs to actually have retired under the current patch before the fix works. So if those players retirements had triggered previously, what you're seeing may just be expected behavior. If you make a backup and sim ahead to the next year, do you still see the same thing happening with the players that newly retire there? __________________ lukas@ootpdevelopments.com PreOrder Out of the Park Baseball 26! Need to upload files for us to check out? Instructions can be found here

07-26-2020, 11:43 PM	#2
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,606 Infractions: 0/2 (3)	Still happens with new build 71. Bob Moose had a career ending injury in 1970 and has come back twice.

08-01-2020, 09:39 AM	#5
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,606 Infractions: 0/2 (3)	Do you have rookies set to go to their historical teams?

08-02-2020, 08:15 AM	#6
Caridnals-BK Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 69	No. My pre-65 leagues I have the rookies become free agents. And then draft beginning in 65. I’ve seen the returning retired players using both rookie import ways.

08-02-2020, 09:35 AM	#7
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,606 Infractions: 0/2 (3)	Just wondering. In my game players have gone back to their historical break in teams and I wondered if the problem was related to the historical rookies setting. Thanks.

08-03-2020, 09:25 AM	#8
Caridnals-BK Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 69	You’re welcome!

09-22-2020, 10:09 AM	#10
Caridnals-BK Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 69	Players are still retiring and then returning to their next season organization. I upgraded to the new patch this morning, 6.81, and then advanced to the offseason in my league that just completed 1959. When I hit the date when the minor leagues updated, I had 6 retirees show up on my team. 5 retired following the '59 season, 1, Luke Easter, retired after the '57 season. Files zipped and uploaded as "Retirees-Still-Returning-to-Teams.lg"

09-22-2020, 12:32 PM	#12
Caridnals-BK Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 69	I patched first and then proceeded to the Offseason. I will sim ahead to see how it goes. Edit to add: So except for Easter (and one of the minor leaguers) all had retired on the new patch.

09-22-2020, 12:41 PM	#13
hefalumps All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,371	I've had this happen for a few versions now. For example, if I advance from 1959 to 1960, anyone in the ML who was playing in 1960 in real life but had retired in my league (either due to injury or ineffectiveness) would suddenly reappear on their real life 1960 teams' DFA list. I'd have to manually re-retire all of them - it was a pain. I got around this by unchecking "import real rookies" when advancing from postseason to offseason, then immediately rechecking it after. This made the problem go away, and since I was importing real rookies for a draft and not onto their real teams, the correct "debut" players would import when the draft rolled around. But if you are setup to import rookies to their real teams, this workaround is no good because it will keep ALL players from importing - the ones that had retired AND the rookies making their debut. I originally thought my issue was due to the fact that I'd been importing this league from much older versions of OOTP (probably back around OOTP14 or OOTP15), and so I think the player ID format changed somewhere in the middle there. My theory was that the game was seeing players with the new player ID format that played on Team A in 1960, didn't see that player ID as part of my league, and imported the player - even though that player with his old player ID had already retired. I never investigated more to find out if that theory was correct, because once I found the workaround I mentioned above, I let it go. Is this league you're playing with one that you've been playing through several OOTP versions and could potentially still be using and old player ID format? Last edited by hefalumps; 09-22-2020 at 12:45 PM.

09-22-2020, 12:52 PM	#14
Caridnals-BK Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 69	The league that I'm posting about here was started with v.20 last November/December.

09-22-2020, 01:21 PM	#16
Caridnals-BK Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 69	Semi-quick Simmed through the '60 season (stayed as GM/let bench coach set lineups) and players unretired again. One difference was the minor leagues evolved on the first day of the offseason, not a week or two afterwards. Might relate to when the minor league season are complete. In '59, the American Association playoffs lasted until late October. First image is the e-mail I received about Musial retiring. Second is the image of my DFA area. Both images are from the same day, October 14. My working theory (not sure if I shared it here or elsewhere) is that the database checks for players missing and then reimports them, but doesn't check the retired players list/database. But I don't know the ins and outs of the mechanics of the game. Just a theory. Hope this helps! Attached Images

09-22-2020, 01:36 PM	#18
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 15,680	Those players that unretired, did they originally retire due to injury or did they simply retire due to other reasons? I believe the main part of the fix only affected players who retired due to injury.

09-22-2020, 01:45 PM	#19
Caridnals-BK Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 69	Regular reitrement. Musial didn't perform like in real life (I'm using the development engine and not recalc) and retired after declining performance in '58, '59, and in the quick test in '60. I don't think the players reintroduced are being re-rated. Musial finished '59 with a 4 contact talent (I play talent only, no ratings), and finished the test in '60 with a 3 contact talent. The unretired Musial in '60 has a 3 contact talent, which doesn't really fit with how he played in his final 3 seasons. Don't know if that's helpful/applicable, but I thought I'd add it. Edit to add: I don't think any of the 8 players I saw this afternoon retired due to injury, just players stuck in minors, or old age (baseball age...) Last edited by Caridnals-BK; 09-22-2020 at 01:47 PM.

09-22-2020, 02:30 PM	#20
hefalumps All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,371	Not sure if what I had been seeing is related to this or not, but my retired players who were re-appearing in DFA were both injury-related and performance related retirees - guys who didn't play as well in my alternate universe as they did in real life so they hung it up sooner. Good luck looking into this issue! It might be awhile before I get to my offseason and migrate to OOTP21 (I play out all my games), but when I do, I'll leave the "import real rookies" button checked and see if I end up with retirees in the DFA and post back.