MLB work stoppage almost certain on Dec. 2

[cephasjames]

Major League Baseball work stoppage almost certain on Dec. 2

Baseball’s ninth work stoppage and first in 26 years appears almost certain to start Dec. 2, freezing the free-agent market and threatening the start of spring training in February.

Negotiations have been taking place since last spring, and each side thinks the other has not made proposals that will lead toward an agreement replacing the five-year contract that expires at 11:59 p.m. EST on Dec. 1.

MLB 'almost certain' to have first work stoppage in 26 years

While as noted players and owners have enjoyed a long run of labor peace -- unprecedentedly long since the first CBA was hammered out in the late 1960s -- several complicated economic issues make another such offseason less likely. The players as represented by the Major League Baseball Players Association likely have an ambitious negotiating agenda designed to recapture a dwindling share of league revenues, push back against the "tanking" phenomenon that's seeing teams choose to be non-competitive, and address service time manipulation by clubs. That's hardly an exhaustive list, but it hints at the broad scope of the current talks.

[RchW]

A lock out is not a work stoppage.

[GeoWar]

******* ambitious negotiating agenda designed to recapture a dwindling share of league revenues, push back against the "tanking" phenomenon that's seeing teams choose to be non-competitive, and address service time manipulation by clubs. That's hardly an exhaustive list, but it hints at the broad scope of the current talks. ******

Revenue share is a good point - but team revenue for many teams can vary greatly -- 2020 showed that , the fan backlash against the political posturing , stadium factors , competitive issues , etc.... --- it can be worked with "national" revenue ( broadcast/media ) MLBPA already generates revenue outside the MLB org ..-- On the "local" level the size of market is always effecting revenue ^^ MLBPA may just want to focus on gate revenue but will they look at net revenue or gross >> who does the accounting ....

Tanking issue ( I think ) has an easy solution ---- work from the middle out ..... example : 37 teams ( easier to illustrate ) ....... Team # 19 - 20- 18- 21- 17- 22- 16 - 23 - 15 -24- 14- 25- 13 - 26- 12- 27- 11 - Then go 37 - 36 - 35 - 34- 33- 32 - 31 - 30 - 29- 28 - 10- 9 - 8- 7 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2- 1 .......... The top ten should be picking at the bottom ....

Service time if a team drafts a player under 20 they have that player for 5 seasons , then the player goes into a secondary draft or are minor league free agents >>> if the player is 20 or older the team has the player for 3 seasons , then the player goes into a secondary draft or are minor league free agents .......

But there are other solutions (many).

[rudel.dietrich]

There will be a strike and it will be long and nasty. Both sides hate one another and there is zero trust.
And both sides are prepared to dig in and make it a long and prolonged fight.

Remember back in the 2019 off season when we were wondering why some of the baseball's top players were not being offered contracts?
The players and their agents remember and still hold a lot of resentment over it.

The average player salary has dropped for 3 seasons now and that pre-dates Covid. Baseball does not realize the trouble it is in and does not seem to care.
It has fallen to 6th or 7th top sport among those under 40.
That is a real warning sign

[pilight]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

The average player salary has dropped for 3 seasons now and that pre-dates Covid

This is despite revenue climbing steadily until last year and the pandemic mess.

The salary loss is almost all on pitchers. That is a big part of why front offices have been pushing managers to limit innings, so they can justify paying pitchers less money.

[GeoWar]

In 2007 MLB attendance was 79,484,718 ....... In 2019 it was 68,494,845.

And 2020 and 2021 continued down..... thanks to Covid and attendance restrictions

So from 2007 to 2019 it was a decline of around 11 million people -- that is major revenue .

[GeoWar]

Originally Posted by pilight

This is despite revenue climbing steadily until last year and the pandemic mess.

The salary loss is almost all on pitchers. That is a big part of why front offices have been pushing managers to limit innings, so they can justify paying pitchers less money.

Agree --- TV (media) revenue has increased.

[Ty Cobb]

.244 league BA?

Sure, that's a hot year...if you're MARIO MENDOZA.

Let's stop right there...am I alone in seeing a problem?

It now (yahoo sports) costs $253 for a family of 4 to see the average MLB game. MLB is on the rocks.

[swoboda]

Originally Posted by Ty Cobb

.244 league BA?

Sure, that's a hot year...if you're MARIO MENDOZA.

Let's stop right there...am I alone in seeing a problem?

It now (yahoo sports) costs $253 for a family of 4 to see the average MLB game. MLB is on the rocks.

Much truth in your observations.
I am on the cusp of enjoying playing my OOTP league of teams from the past more than watching today's version of MLB.
And dynamic ticket pricing is making weekend day games just plain unaffordable for working class families.

[GeoWar]

I am just pointing out that attendance at games has decreased overall by more than 11 million people since 2007 ( 2007 to 2019 ) or ..... 14 to 15 % .

And you know some markets have seen bigger decreases .

I am a fan of a team . The team hypes the player(s) . The player then wants a salary at that level or moves on through free agency . There are so many players that move on from one team to another and then do not perform --- or merit the same level of attention at their new team .

Why are pitchers overall more effected ? Most are hitting free agency around age 30 --- most want a long term contract --- innings - injuries - .......... Even in OOTP , I have tried to offer pitchers larger than value contracts till age 34 then lower salary with an opt out ------ and no signings. So many go free agent and end up signing large one season contracts or sign the multi-year contract and after 34/35 end up overvalued and teams lose. **** Look at Sale , Price , etc..
.

[kenyan_cheena]

Is it true that they want to expand the postseason to 14 teams from next season?

[Curve Ball Dave]

Baseball is doing nothing to make the game more accessible to the masses. You have to take out a mortgage to attend a game, and if you want to watch your local team on TV you have to have a cable subscription or another piece of technology that will allow you to view the game and neither of these items are necessarily within the means of a working class person. So between the extreme cost of attending a game and the costs to just watch from your living room, it takes a lot of money to be fan. And the billionaire owners and millionaire players are going to fight over how much more money it'll take to follow the game.

[Mancandy]

In 2007, MLB’s total revenue was $6.1 billion. In 2019, it was $10.7 billion. That’s an increase of 43%.

In 2007, the average MLB player salary was $2.82 million. In 2019, it was $4.38 million. An increase of 35.6%.

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

Baseball is doing nothing to make the game more accessible to the masses. You have to take out a mortgage to attend a game, and if you want to watch your local team on TV you have to have a cable subscription or another piece of technology that will allow you to view the game and neither of these items are necessarily within the means of a working class person. So between the extreme cost of attending a game and the costs to just watch from your living room, it takes a lot of money to be fan. And the billionaire owners and millionaire players are going to fight over how much more money it'll take to follow the game.

The owners and owners alone set the prices…and they’re going to set the prices at the point which they believe will provide the most revenue, independent of how much they pay the players. It’s based on supply and demand, not expenses.

The players are just fighting for their fair share of the money that the owners are going to make regardless. Since they’re, you know, the reason the money is actually being made in the first place. Nobody’s paying to watch a billionaire sit in a suite that costs more than their house.

[Curve Ball Dave]

Originally Posted by Mancandy

The owners and owners alone set the prices…and they’re going to set the prices at the point which they believe will provide the most revenue, independent of how much they pay the players. It’s based on supply and demand, not expenses.

The players are just fighting for their fair share of the money that the owners are going to make regardless. Since they’re, you know, the reason the money is actually being made in the first place. Nobody’s paying to watch a billionaire sit in a suite that costs more than their house.

This is all true, but no matter what the fans will end up paying more. If the players "win" and get more money the cost will be passed down to the consumers. If the owners "win" and get more money it will come out of the fans' pockets. Either way the fans are the losers because people who make more money in a year than 99% of us won't make in a lifetime won't be able to agree on how much more money their respective side will get. No owner or player will have to decide between say food or medicine, that's for the working stiffs who have no seat at the table.

[billyray1984]

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

This is all true, but no matter what the fans will end up paying more. If the players "win" and get more money the cost will be passed down to the consumers. If the owners "win" and get more money it will come out of the fans' pockets. Either way the fans are the losers because people who make more money in a year than 99% of us won't make in a lifetime won't be able to agree on how much more money their respective side will get. No owner or player will have to decide between say food or medicine, that's for the working stiffs who have no seat at the table.

I'm with you regarding the state of the game : money now rules everything and short sighted moves like tv blackouts and increased ticket prices have to go.

Now, the owners are crying poor after one bad fiscal year due to a global pandemic that affected the whole world and not just them. The cost of paying players their fair share of revenue doesn't have to come from the fans. Owners are amply capable of shouldering this burden. They choose just not to do so in order to maximize their revenue streams each year instead of trying to help the game grow.

[mytreds]

Originally Posted by Mancandy

In 2007, MLB’s total revenue was $6.1 billion. In 2019, it was $10.7 billion. That’s an increase of 43%.

In 2007, the average MLB player salary was $2.82 million. In 2019, it was $4.38 million. An increase of 35.6%.

I’m not excusing owners from charging outrageous prices for everything, but keep in mind inflation rates between 2007 and 2019. Inflation rising every year will distort figures which appear static. A better number to see is profit, which is revenue - cost.

[mytreds]

Originally Posted by Mancandy

It’s based on supply and demand, not expenses.

MLB is an oligopoly. So they can’t ignore S&D completely but they can definitely work outside restrictions of S&D more than other markets.

[low]

The day is upon us. Does 2022 start on time? Does it start at all? I can't imagine both the MLB and MLBPA throwing an entire season in the toilet. Somebody is going to cave.

[Galeg]

My guess is it goes well into the original ST dates. Then we get a severely shortened ST and the first 20 games of the regular season, while on time, are crap because players aren't up to speed.

[Déjà Bru]

I cannot look too long or closely at this, or else I am going to sour completely on this sport, or any professional sport. This is what they are fighting over; how to split this pie:





The greenest, least talented player in the league makes more than a half-million dollars a year, for playing a game. The highest salaried player now receives (or will receive, when the lockout is over) $43.3 million per annum. The average MLB owner could cash in his franchise for a cool $2 billion.

All of this being paid for by you and me, of course, while at the same time our sons and daughters struggle to afford their homes and food on the table.

As I said, I've got to avoid delving too deep into this. My revulsion is growing, as is the urge to discontinue buying into this wealth transfer scheme.