Should the swings between levels be this extreme?

Maddox · 04-20-2022, 01:54 PM

So, I set up a perfect team early in the cycle, like in the first week and did not spend a lot of time on it. I decided to jump back in and use any accumulated Perfect points just to rip some packs (why let them go to waste). But first I decided to look and see how my team did. What I found was a little concerning to look at and more than a little daunting as I think about buying OOTP 23.

Should the step up in levels create this much of a difficulty jump? I would amass very good records in Iron, get promoted and then get totally obliterated in bronze.

Here is one example

In 2063 I went 117-45 in iron league for a score of 1083
In 2064 I went 56-106 in Bronze for a score of 8 and was 67 games behind

Granted, these screenshots are the latter half of the OOTP 22's life cycle but can you see just how intimidating that would be for someone who starts late? The year after I won the Iron Level Championship I ended up 58 games behind with the same team. If that was the first time I had jumped to Bronze I would have just quit as the changes needed to that team to just become competitive seems too great (and expensive)

LeeD · 04-22-2022, 03:14 PM

It's the (multiple levels of?) normalization going on under the hood. In the early going, Cy Young was everyone's desired ace. He could be counted on to win 20+ and compete for the pitching triple crown at the lower levels. Then there was Hack Wilson, who hit 70 home runs and drove in 210 for one of my teams.Both are long gone, sold to fund further missions.

Why? Cy's ratings were high relative to his contemporaries in PT terms. He was the best or nearly best pitcher at initial release. However, with the release of more and more pitchers, his movement rating especially is now inferior, and he won't be even serviceable above Silver level. Everyone has moved on to Koufax, Maddux, and Randy Johnson. The ratings of the batters being faced has also increased. Since everything is normalized, Cy Young has gone from being Number One on most teams to being a 9.99 ERA if he's still on your active roster and facing staffs with those guys (and Clemens and Spahn and Carlton etc.).

Wilson's avoid K is terrible compared to those who were released afterward, and his center field defense has gone from below average to disastrous. Where he once struck out 100 times while leading the league with 50+ home runs and not costing you too much in center field, he's now just another guy on the reserve roster, replaced by one of dozens of subsequent-release players who are far better. Since he's competing with those others, and since the stats are normalized, he would be one of those Mendoza Line hitters with occasional pop, and most of that against lefties.

You have to face the fact that next week's or next month's new releases are designed to make this week's stud player ordinary by next week and this month's stud replaceable by next month. That's the way the system works in PT: if you don't move forward, you're moving backward (all motion being relative).

The good news is that not every player has either the time, money, or commitment to field a Diamond level juggernaut. It's not too, too difficult to assemble a competitive Silver level team. Beyond that, you're largely competing against the moneyed and the motivated (and the players who started early, saved all their cards, and thus got a lot of instant mission completions when new missions dropped).

There are what, 900+ missions to complete? My best team has completed 863 of them and routinely thumps the competition at Gold level (all accomplished without spending a dime). Of course, they get to Diamond and they're lucky to survive for three weeks of 82-80 seasons, but that's an accomplishment given the ever-changing player card landscape.

zevus · 04-26-2022, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maddox

So, I set up a perfect team early in the cycle, like in the first week and did not spend a lot of time on it. I decided to jump back in and use any accumulated Perfect points just to rip some packs (why let them go to waste). But first I decided to look and see how my team did. What I found was a little concerning to look at and more than a little daunting as I think about buying OOTP 23.

Should the step up in levels create this much of a difficulty jump? I would amass very good records in Iron, get promoted and then get totally obliterated in bronze.

Here is one example

In 2063 I went 117-45 in iron league for a score of 1083
In 2064 I went 56-106 in Bronze for a score of 8 and was 67 games behind

Granted, these screenshots are the latter half of the OOTP 22's life cycle but can you see just how intimidating that would be for someone who starts late? The year after I won the Iron Level Championship I ended up 58 games behind with the same team. If that was the first time I had jumped to Bronze I would have just quit as the changes needed to that team to just become competitive seems too great (and expensive)

In my case, I got lucky in that I got a "Legend" RF King Kelly in one of those starter packs you get when you create your account. Possibly they don't act as normal packs & you always get *something* "good" ... but probably not something you can flip for 600k after fees on the auction house (seems to be worth less now. decided to just take a look, hah).

.... but got through rookie, stone, iron very easily w/ 90% win. bronze was 80%, silver was 75%, & then gold (would have been) ~40%, except I did bad things and started throwing games (because I remembered all the points you got at the earlier levels & this was before I started doing a decent chunk of tourneys).

...... but to answer your question, no, I don't think they should jump that much in difficulty.

Hopefully they'll adjust this ratio of promotions to demotions for next, as that's what causes it.

04-20-2022, 01:54 PM	#1
Maddox All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 903	Should the swings between levels be this extreme? So, I set up a perfect team early in the cycle, like in the first week and did not spend a lot of time on it. I decided to jump back in and use any accumulated Perfect points just to rip some packs (why let them go to waste). But first I decided to look and see how my team did. What I found was a little concerning to look at and more than a little daunting as I think about buying OOTP 23. Should the step up in levels create this much of a difficulty jump? I would amass very good records in Iron, get promoted and then get totally obliterated in bronze. Here is one example In 2063 I went 117-45 in iron league for a score of 1083 In 2064 I went 56-106 in Bronze for a score of 8 and was 67 games behind Granted, these screenshots are the latter half of the OOTP 22's life cycle but can you see just how intimidating that would be for someone who starts late? The year after I won the Iron Level Championship I ended up 58 games behind with the same team. If that was the first time I had jumped to Bronze I would have just quit as the changes needed to that team to just become competitive seems too great (and expensive) Attached Images

04-22-2022, 03:14 PM	#2
LeeD All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2022 Posts: 819	It's the (multiple levels of?) normalization going on under the hood. In the early going, Cy Young was everyone's desired ace. He could be counted on to win 20+ and compete for the pitching triple crown at the lower levels. Then there was Hack Wilson, who hit 70 home runs and drove in 210 for one of my teams.Both are long gone, sold to fund further missions. Why? Cy's ratings were high relative to his contemporaries in PT terms. He was the best or nearly best pitcher at initial release. However, with the release of more and more pitchers, his movement rating especially is now inferior, and he won't be even serviceable above Silver level. Everyone has moved on to Koufax, Maddux, and Randy Johnson. The ratings of the batters being faced has also increased. Since everything is normalized, Cy Young has gone from being Number One on most teams to being a 9.99 ERA if he's still on your active roster and facing staffs with those guys (and Clemens and Spahn and Carlton etc.). Wilson's avoid K is terrible compared to those who were released afterward, and his center field defense has gone from below average to disastrous. Where he once struck out 100 times while leading the league with 50+ home runs and not costing you too much in center field, he's now just another guy on the reserve roster, replaced by one of dozens of subsequent-release players who are far better. Since he's competing with those others, and since the stats are normalized, he would be one of those Mendoza Line hitters with occasional pop, and most of that against lefties. You have to face the fact that next week's or next month's new releases are designed to make this week's stud player ordinary by next week and this month's stud replaceable by next month. That's the way the system works in PT: if you don't move forward, you're moving backward (all motion being relative). The good news is that not every player has either the time, money, or commitment to field a Diamond level juggernaut. It's not too, too difficult to assemble a competitive Silver level team. Beyond that, you're largely competing against the moneyed and the motivated (and the players who started early, saved all their cards, and thus got a lot of instant mission completions when new missions dropped). There are what, 900+ missions to complete? My best team has completed 863 of them and routinely thumps the competition at Gold level (all accomplished without spending a dime). Of course, they get to Diamond and they're lucky to survive for three weeks of 82-80 seasons, but that's an accomplishment given the ever-changing player card landscape.