Not sure if I like this or not

[David Watts]

Just finished up the 1986 post season in my current random debut. I was kind of shocked to see 2 out of the 4 post season participants move pitchers that were used as starters during the entire regular season into the closer role. Been trying to remember if there were any real life instances of this happening? Once team moved Dellin Betances into the setup role in favor of Bruce Hurst. Betances had 30+ saves on the year, but also carried a sketchy 5+ ERA. It worked for this team, I just wonder if it's realistic that a team would do this? But then again, is it realistic that Toad Ramsey is playing in 1986?

[Brad K]

What do you think a team should do with extra starters?

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Brad K

What do you think a team should do with extra starters?

Oh I want them to pitch out of the bullpen, I'm just a little skeptical about them being made the closer.

[Brad K]

They got to be closers because they won the comparative ratings battle. At least AI thought so. Maybe AI for some teams isn't as good as for others. I don't know. But if that's true then better AI for individual teams is a good thing to attach to a "Help AI" switch.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Brad K

They got to be closers because they won the comparative ratings battle. At least AI thought so. Maybe AI for some teams isn't as good as for others. I don't know. But if that's true then better AI for individual teams is a good thing to attach to a "Help AI" switch.

Both guys inserted into the role actually did a decent job in the role, so maybe it was a smart move. One of those things that maybe I'm better off not comparing to real life.

[Brad K]

If OOTP accurately rates skills then maybe real life could learn from this. However what is missing from OOTP is an accurate depiction of the mental side of the change like how much confidence a starter would bring to the closers job. And, of course, OOTPs rating of a starters skills may not be able to be adjusted to being a closer.

Do I have enough "ifs" here? LOL.

[luckymann]

In my AtHoL RD Save, I have moved an age-30 Randy Johnson into the Closer role. At this point in his career, the stuff is getting up there but the control is still way down. My rationale was two-pronged:

1. In short spurts the good stuff should, more often than not, trump the iffy control.
2. As a smaller-market team, this may allow us to afford him when he has that unbelievable late spurt because he'll be on RP money rather than SP when we try to lock him down for a L/T deal.

He did better than what DW describes above. 40-odd saves, ERA+ of 130 in 76 IP.

It's that latter figure that is key here. I've had discussions elsewhere and there's no doubt the game's usage of Closers needs some tweaking. Looking at RJ, he pitched in 74 games this season - just 49 of them save opportunities.

Kelvim Escobar, my RH Setup guy all year, pitched just 17 IP.

I think the key to getting more innings for your setup guys (or any relievers, really) is to add HIGH LEVERAGE as their secondary role. USE MORE OFTEN doesn't, for the moment at least, seem to do this effectively enough on its own. Barry Zito, an early-season acquisition used as my LH Setup guy from about mid-season, pitched double the innings to Escobar in 35 games v 15, with that HIGH LEVERAGE designation applied.

Obviously, in saves like DW's where he's not controlling a team, it is up to the AI to correctly deploy their BPs - something it just seems incapable of doing 100% properly right now. Word from the devs is that this area is under consideration for some work in v24.

[Brad K]

The memory isn't clear but sometime during my current save AI moved a starter to closer when I cut the rotation to four for the post season.

I think the key to getting more innings for your setup guys (or any relievers, really) is to add HIGH LEVERAGE as their secondary role

In the seven RP era, do you think by doing this I could be by with six?

[luckymann]

Originally Posted by Brad K

The memory isn't clear but sometime during my current save AI moved a starter to closer when I cut the rotation to four for the post season.



In the seven RP era, do you think by doing this I could be by with six?

Depends on three main things IMHO:

1. The pitcher stamina settings being used
2. The stamina ratings of your SP and your RP
3. The schedule

If you have say 4 SP who can go deep and at least one RP you can use both in LR and as a swing man / EmSP, and there aren't too many DHs or long stretches with no off-days then you should be OK.

[Pelican]

Obviously a small sample and total recency bias, but the magician Rob Thomson moved Zach Eflin into a sometimes-closer role in the postseason, and even had the audacity to use/waste his third starter Ranger Suarez in an “all hands on deck” relief role. Eflin was coming back from an injury and not stretched out, so no real choice. Ranger is a risky high-wire act that seemed like genius when the Phils took the first game, and looks like desperation now. I guess your experience was “art (science) imitating life”?

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by luckymann

Depends on three main things IMHO:

1. The pitcher stamina settings being used
2. The stamina ratings of your SP and your RP
3. The schedule

If you have say 4 SP who can go deep and at least one RP you can use both in LR and as a swing man / EmSP, and there aren't too many DHs or long stretches with no off-days then you should be OK.

I thought in my current save I had a year with no pitchers injured where I could compare innings, but I don't.

Don't understand your comment of 4 SPs for the 12 pitcher era.

[luckymann]

Originally Posted by Brad K

I thought in my current save I had a year with no pitchers injured where I could compare innings, but I don't.

Don't understand your comment of 4 SPs for the 12 pitcher era.

As in 4 starters who are workhorses with high stamina rather than guys who gas after 5.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by luckymann

As in 4 starters who are workhorses with high stamina rather than guys who gas after 5.

Ah, OK.

I think I probably haven't ever had the right staff to do that. I switch to 6 RP and then to 7 when I notice most of the pen is tired before the game. Although I think I add RPs later than other teams. Will have to check next time.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Just finished up the 1986 post season in my current random debut. I was kind of shocked to see 2 out of the 4 post season participants move pitchers that were used as starters during the entire regular season into the closer role. Been trying to remember if there were any real life instances of this happening? Once team moved Dellin Betances into the setup role in favor of Bruce Hurst. Betances had 30+ saves on the year, but also carried a sketchy 5+ ERA. It worked for this team, I just wonder if it's realistic that a team would do this? But then again, is it realistic that Toad Ramsey is playing in 1986?

The Toadly one would make a fantastic closer, but he's also a great starter, so he doesn't need to be there. What are your settings for Pitcher Stamina? Hurst only made 20 relief appearances, in 15 seasons, so it does seem weird.

[Pelican]

Then there is John Smoltz. Listening to him during the World Series, it reminded me how he made the switch from ace to closer. And his commentary is amazing, insights valuable and insightful, at the Cris Hollingsworth level. A pleasure.

[Brad K]

I'm glad you liked it. I turned the volume down to zero. They talked too much. They needed to halve the talk and have someone doing play by play.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Brad K

I'm glad you liked it. I turned the volume down to zero. They talked too much. They needed to halve the talk and have someone doing play by play.

I'm so glad to see someone else saying this. I've felt this way for a long time now. The majority of baseball broadcasts today turn into nothing more than never ending noise. I think it's awful at the national level, but it's pretty darn bad at the local level as well. I gave up on following the Tigers on both television and on the radio. Sucks big time, because as a kid hearing George and Al on television and Ernie and Paul on the radio was probably baseball broadcasting at it's best. We get the Ranger games here in Shreveport. Tom Grieve never shuts up.

[luckymann]

Originally Posted by David Watts

I'm so glad to see someone else saying this. I've felt this way for a long time now. The majority of baseball broadcasts today turn into nothing more than never ending noise. I think it's awful at the national level, but it's pretty darn bad at the local level as well. I gave up on following the Tigers on both television and on the radio. Sucks big time, because as a kid hearing George and Al on television and Ernie and Paul on the radio was probably baseball broadcasting at it's best. We get the Ranger games here in Shreveport. Tom Grieve never shuts up.

Yep, 100%. And sorry Pelican but Smoltz makes McCarver sound like Scully in comparison. He is the worst. Although, credit where, at least he's not a shouter like so many of these other idiots.

[Brad K]

Smoltz saying the pitcher is trying to do this or that, how does he know? He knows what HE would be trying to do, not what a particular pitcher is trying to do.

If what a pitcher is trying to do is common knowledge, the batters would know too. And if so, how did we have a no hitter?

Nobody was actually talking about the game as it was occurring. A person with a minor interest who tuned in because it was the World Series, they'd never become a real fan after being subjected to this.

[David Watts]

Crazy goings on in my current random league. 3rd season late September, St Louis is a half a game up on Pittsburgh when I notice St Louis has Luis Arraez batting 8th and get this he is the teams catcher. Of course, he has zero ratings. I check the St Louis roster and they don't have a catcher on the 25 man roster. After the game I check their organization and they have only 2 catchers total, one is injured and John Ellis is on a minor league rehab. Was really surprised to see they had zero catchers in AAA or AA ball(I only have two levels of minors). Not much I can do. When St Louis plays their next game Fred Shulte is behind the plate. Again no ratings.

When the next St Louis game rolled around, they had Duffy Dyer behind the plate, having signed him to a minor league contract. Boy was I happy to see that they addressed the issue.