AI Trading

CanuckJohnny · 02-22-2023, 04:36 AM

Does anyone else notice the majority of trades seem to be opposite what they should be for the outlook of the involved teams?

So often I see a Rebuild outlook team trading away draft picks or prospects to a Win Now outlook team in exchange for an NHL player (usually a good one too). This doesn't make sense if the AI was using the outlook system properly (which in theory should be working well to make player movement more realistic).

Most recent examples are the two biggest trades so far (one month in) of a new save: NYR (Win Now) send 2.5 star defenseman Ryan Lindgren to Buf (Rebuild) for a 2nd round pick; NYR (Win Now) send 2.5/3.5 star center Filip Chytil to Mtl (Balanced, Rebuild) for a 2nd round pick (yeah also really bad value wise for the Blueshirts, so I guess that one makes sense for the Habs at least).

Some suggestions/wishlisty things:

- maybe something needs to be fixed with how the AI is implementing the outlook system
- in the meantime, it would be nice to have a 'review trade' option where we could veto AI trades if they make no sense
- also, it would be nice (I'm guessing not possible due to how most of the settings are only editable once a year) to be able to tune the trade frequency mid-season, I thought I had seen this before but I can't find it so maybe I'm thinking of July 1
- lastly, it would be cool to have a simple trades on/off toggle to limit trading during the season to certain times to help better manage it until it is fixed

AbeFroman · 02-22-2023, 09:28 AM

This is certainly one of the two problems I have with trading.

Teams that are rebuilding should be looking to trade aging players on expiring contracts yet that is not the case. It sometimes happens but rarely do you see teams that are “win now” trading for rentals from teams that are “rebuilding.”

The other problem I have and I doubt that I am alone but haven’t seen a lot of people mentioning is that after year 1 in a standard NHL game when trades at the deadline are at a good volume, once I raise the Salary Cap in year 2 and so on, trade deadline trades are at a fraction of what they should be. Currently I’m in the 26-27 season with a cap of 96.5M and there was one trade at the deadline.

Savoie45 · 02-22-2023, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanuckJohnny

Does anyone else notice the majority of trades seem to be opposite what they should be for the outlook of the involved teams?

So often I see a Rebuild outlook team trading away draft picks or prospects to a Win Now outlook team in exchange for an NHL player (usually a good one too). This doesn't make sense if the AI was using the outlook system properly (which in theory should be working well to make player movement more realistic).

Most recent examples are the two biggest trades so far (one month in) of a new save: NYR (Win Now) send 2.5 star defenseman Ryan Lindgren to Buf (Rebuild) for a 2nd round pick; NYR (Win Now) send 2.5/3.5 star center Filip Chytil to Mtl (Balanced, Rebuild) for a 2nd round pick (yeah also really bad value wise for the Blueshirts, so I guess that one makes sense for the Habs at least).

Some suggestions/wishlisty things:

- maybe something needs to be fixed with how the AI is implementing the outlook system
- in the meantime, it would be nice to have a 'review trade' option where we could veto AI trades if they make no sense
- also, it would be nice (I'm guessing not possible due to how most of the settings are only editable once a year) to be able to tune the trade frequency mid-season, I thought I had seen this before but I can't find it so maybe I'm thinking of July 1
- lastly, it would be cool to have a simple trades on/off toggle to limit trading during the season to certain times to help better manage it until it is fixed

Well you could go edit the players back to their old teams if you're in commissioner mode, but that seems like too much work given it's not going to help the AI behave any different. You can turn off trades in the league edit screen, but it can only be done on July 1.

viperswhip · 03-03-2023, 04:12 PM

Well, rebuilding teams these days often trade for Veterans on bad deals that are expiring in the next couple of years in exchange for draft picks on top of the player. Taking on dead money or bad deals is how rebuilding teams build draft capital. We don't really see that in this game because you are forced to take back a player.

Castleview · 03-04-2023, 02:53 AM

I suspect it would need a major revamp of the trade engine to allow inclusion of 3rd teams as trade brokers.

ZootMurph · 07-24-2023, 09:30 PM

I've noticed the AI trading is very poor as well. I have a team in the current league I'm playing now that has 4 high quality RWs, and NO goalie of more than 1.5 stars (ability and potential). So I offered a 3rd goalie I have who won't be playing any time soon on my NHL team (3.0/4.0) for a 4th liner (3.0/4.0) RW who is getting just under 10 minutes a game. I even added a 1st and they still wouldn't accept it. That should have been an EASY swap for them straight up as it helps them where they need it most, and helps me get a RW who will be a 2nd line guy until my injuries heal and he will then be a 3rd liner. On top of that, they are in a bad spot cap wise, and this would alleviate their cap issue.

The AI is just programmed to be hard to deal with, but is not programmed to use reason to make a trade. It's impossible to understand how to make a trade with the AI.

Nickphillies · 07-25-2023, 10:50 AM

That's one of the annoyances I'm running across in my main save. Reasonable trades are impossible to make yet the AI will trade a 3*/4* player from a position of weakness for a 3rd rounder. The GM AI is needing some upgrades. Too many head scratcher moves....I've ended up overruling some of the trades/moves in Comish mode.

I even resort to manually signing Free agents to teams that severely need the help and can afford said player (RFA and UFA). There isn't much in the ways of the GM's properly handling their younger players who "should" be part of their core or their future.

AbeFroman · 07-25-2023, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickphillies

That's one of the annoyances I'm running across in my main save. Reasonable trades are impossible to make yet the AI will trade a 3*/4* player from a position of weakness for a 3rd rounder. The GM AI is needing some upgrades. Too many head scratcher moves....I've ended up overruling some of the trades/moves in Comish mode.

I even resort to manually signing Free agents to teams that severely need the help and can afford said player (RFA and UFA). There isn't much in the ways of the GM's properly handling their younger players who "should" be part of their core or their future.

To be fair, some real life GM’s make some head scratching moves as well. But yes, I am in the middle of my 2nd season in a current save, increased the cap 1M and upped the trade frequency to 65 and I’m struggling to get more than 3 trades at the deadline.

02-22-2023, 04:36 AM	#1
CanuckJohnny All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2022 Posts: 554	AI Trading Does anyone else notice the majority of trades seem to be opposite what they should be for the outlook of the involved teams? So often I see a Rebuild outlook team trading away draft picks or prospects to a Win Now outlook team in exchange for an NHL player (usually a good one too). This doesn't make sense if the AI was using the outlook system properly (which in theory should be working well to make player movement more realistic). Most recent examples are the two biggest trades so far (one month in) of a new save: NYR (Win Now) send 2.5 star defenseman Ryan Lindgren to Buf (Rebuild) for a 2nd round pick; NYR (Win Now) send 2.5/3.5 star center Filip Chytil to Mtl (Balanced, Rebuild) for a 2nd round pick (yeah also really bad value wise for the Blueshirts, so I guess that one makes sense for the Habs at least). Some suggestions/wishlisty things: - maybe something needs to be fixed with how the AI is implementing the outlook system - in the meantime, it would be nice to have a 'review trade' option where we could veto AI trades if they make no sense - also, it would be nice (I'm guessing not possible due to how most of the settings are only editable once a year) to be able to tune the trade frequency mid-season, I thought I had seen this before but I can't find it so maybe I'm thinking of July 1 - lastly, it would be cool to have a simple trades on/off toggle to limit trading during the season to certain times to help better manage it until it is fixed

07-25-2023, 10:50 AM	#7
Nickphillies All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 586	That's one of the annoyances I'm running across in my main save. Reasonable trades are impossible to make yet the AI will trade a 3/4 player from a position of weakness for a 3rd rounder. The GM AI is needing some upgrades. Too many head scratcher moves....I've ended up overruling some of the trades/moves in Comish mode. I even resort to manually signing Free agents to teams that severely need the help and can afford said player (RFA and UFA). There isn't much in the ways of the GM's properly handling their younger players who "should" be part of their core or their future. __________________ FHM Beta Tester

02-22-2023, 09:28 AM	#2
AbeFroman Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 84	This is certainly one of the two problems I have with trading. Teams that are rebuilding should be looking to trade aging players on expiring contracts yet that is not the case. It sometimes happens but rarely do you see teams that are “win now” trading for rentals from teams that are “rebuilding.” The other problem I have and I doubt that I am alone but haven’t seen a lot of people mentioning is that after year 1 in a standard NHL game when trades at the deadline are at a good volume, once I raise the Salary Cap in year 2 and so on, trade deadline trades are at a fraction of what they should be. Currently I’m in the 26-27 season with a cap of 96.5M and there was one trade at the deadline.

03-03-2023, 04:12 PM	#4
viperswhip Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2020 Posts: 58	Well, rebuilding teams these days often trade for Veterans on bad deals that are expiring in the next couple of years in exchange for draft picks on top of the player. Taking on dead money or bad deals is how rebuilding teams build draft capital. We don't really see that in this game because you are forced to take back a player.

03-04-2023, 02:53 AM	#5
Castleview All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2020 Location: Scotland Posts: 782	I suspect it would need a major revamp of the trade engine to allow inclusion of 3rd teams as trade brokers.

07-24-2023, 09:30 PM	#6
ZootMurph Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 124	I've noticed the AI trading is very poor as well. I have a team in the current league I'm playing now that has 4 high quality RWs, and NO goalie of more than 1.5 stars (ability and potential). So I offered a 3rd goalie I have who won't be playing any time soon on my NHL team (3.0/4.0) for a 4th liner (3.0/4.0) RW who is getting just under 10 minutes a game. I even added a 1st and they still wouldn't accept it. That should have been an EASY swap for them straight up as it helps them where they need it most, and helps me get a RW who will be a 2nd line guy until my injuries heal and he will then be a 3rd liner. On top of that, they are in a bad spot cap wise, and this would alleviate their cap issue. The AI is just programmed to be hard to deal with, but is not programmed to use reason to make a trade. It's impossible to understand how to make a trade with the AI.