Relief pitchers and OOTP25

smythejd · 06-13-2024, 07:55 PM

I am a long time OOTP player, my fictional league has over 250 years of play. I play as GM only and am able (when motivated) to complete a season in as little as one week. Once updating to OOTP25, noticed immediately that the relief pitchers ratings (I use stars) all took significant down grades. My 4 and 4.5 guys when down to 3 star. Actually, right now I only have one reliever in the entire league (32 teams) that is over 3 stars (that guy is 3.5 stars). I am in the middle of my second season (since upgrading) and my bullpen is being torched again this year (last year was equally as bad).

Has anyone else seen this in OOTP25 and is there anything I can do to reverse this trend.

ayaghmour2 · 06-13-2024, 08:10 PM

This is a purposeful change done to better mimic the real life rating of relievers.

A thread on it if you are interested: https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=355263

The star rating is not why your pen is getting torched, its likely the individual pitchers ratings. That's always more important then the overall ratings

texasmame · 06-13-2024, 08:46 PM

I had to rebuild 80% of my pitching staff with this version.

Every year things change a bit but this year the rating changes were pretty drastic.

FlexD · 06-14-2024, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texasmame

I had to rebuild 80% of my pitching staff with this version.

Every year things change a bit but this year the rating changes were pretty drastic.

Indeed they were, my team as a whole went from a 90 win team last season with a good number of very good players to just 3 or 4 good players we stand at 5-18 with version 25..This is in an online league

Sweed · 06-14-2024, 09:32 AM

But don't all teams go through the "conversion" when a league is imported? It doesn't just happen to human controlled teams. IOW if it affects you, it affects the AI or other online team "owners".

In my game I have one batter and one pitcher that have "changed" (did they really?). One young SP went down the tubes, but is it just a bad season or an actual change? Looking at his skills he should be doing much better.

One batter became "better" (again did he really?) with the contact changes, ie he has little power and the change in batter babip seems to have given him better contact. But again it could be sample size.

From what I've seen in my game is all players were imported in context with the v25 "improved" under the hood scaling. They may look a little different , but overall performance for most players isn't much different than v24. IOW what I would expect to see.

Take my experience with a grain of salt as I play out every game and normally get in three seasons per version. I can't speak for how things look over 20, 30, or 100 seasons.

FlexD · 06-14-2024, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweed

But don't all teams go through the "conversion" when a league is imported? It doesn't just happen to human controlled teams. IOW if it affects you, it affects the AI or other online team "owners".

In my game I have one batter and one pitcher that have "changed" (did they really?). One young SP went down the tubes, but is it just a bad season or an actual change? Looking at his skills he should be doing much better.

One batter became "better" (again did he really?) with the contact changes, ie he has little power and the change in batter babip seems to have given him better contact. But again it could be sample size.

From what I've seen in my game is all players were imported in context with the v25 "improved" under the hood scaling. They may look a little different , but overall performance for most players isn't much different than v24. IOW what I would expect to see.

Take my experience with a grain of salt as I play out every game and normally get in three seasons per version. I can't speak for how things look over 20, 30, or 100 seasons.

This is not what I'm seeing, but I don't play offline

smythejd · 06-14-2024, 07:59 PM

Thanks for the link ayaghmour2. I understand the change to the RP ratings, just having a hard time adjusting to my bullpen getting lit up so often.

Vezna31 · 06-22-2024, 12:00 AM

Out of 708 relievers in my league, including minors, international, and free agents, my league has one 5.0 star reliever, and four 3.5 star relievers. The rest are 3 star and lower.

In the opposing Japan league of 255 relievers in the same universe, there is one 4.5 star, two 4.0 star, and seven 3.5 star relievers.

And yes...it seems like my games go one of two ways: I get shellacked for 4 or 5 runs in the 1st or 2nd inning, or I bring in a reliever late that gets knocked around and loses the lead to take the loss.

OutS|der · 06-23-2024, 08:42 AM

When players are rated based on all players then some positions will not be rated as highly no matter how talented the player is.

Going by the 20-80 scale Relievers are hard to value in this sense, as many people and scouts would say you’re crazy to not call Mariano Rivera an 80 since he’s the best ever. The problem is that assumes he’s as valuable as Mike Trout, which significantly fewer people believe.

The game isn't this extreme yet but it has gotten closer to this model. take Mariano Rivera for example, his displayed ratings would drop while his true ratings stayed the same.

If you uncheck Overall Ratings based on all players you should in theory see at least one 80 or 5 star player per position

uruguru · 06-23-2024, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OutS|der

many people and scouts would say you’re crazy to not call Mariano Rivera an 80 since he’s the best ever. The problem is that assumes he’s as valuable as Mike Trout, which significantly fewer people believe.

If he was an 80, then he would have remained a starter when they brought him up.

Just about every great reliever is a failed starter.

Syd Thrift · 06-23-2024, 10:16 AM

My experience is that relievers aren’t really any “worse” per se, they’re just not rated like they used to be. IRL relievers don’t get 80 grades unless they’re prime Mariano Rivera. That said, relief pitching is always volatile and not super trustworthy and the teams that do a good job with it (hi, my Mariners) tend to just have a lot of bodies in the majors and minors they throw out there and get to choose from (and in the M’s case they like to train the relievers up to throw a couple of pitches, which is in the early stages of being reflected in the game with the development lab).

eauhomme · 07-07-2024, 11:03 PM

I, for one, am glad to see this. It has always bothered me that relievers have been overvalued by the star rating. 24 wasn't too awful on that--a 4-star reliever was equal in value to a 3-star at another position, while a 5-star was at least a 3.5 in reality. But there have been a couple OOTP versions in the past where half the bullpen was 5-star, and I always found that ridiculous.

06-13-2024, 07:55 PM	#1
smythejd All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,023	Relief pitchers and OOTP25 I am a long time OOTP player, my fictional league has over 250 years of play. I play as GM only and am able (when motivated) to complete a season in as little as one week. Once updating to OOTP25, noticed immediately that the relief pitchers ratings (I use stars) all took significant down grades. My 4 and 4.5 guys when down to 3 star. Actually, right now I only have one reliever in the entire league (32 teams) that is over 3 stars (that guy is 3.5 stars). I am in the middle of my second season (since upgrading) and my bullpen is being torched again this year (last year was equally as bad). Has anyone else seen this in OOTP25 and is there anything I can do to reverse this trend.

06-13-2024, 08:46 PM	#3
texasmame All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Planet Texas Posts: 1,643	I had to rebuild 80% of my pitching staff with this version. Every year things change a bit but this year the rating changes were pretty drastic. __________________ Managing and rebuilding the 100-loss BURBANK BLACK BARONS. Defeated the TAIWAN EXPLOSIVE GO SALMON (99-63) in seven games to win the WORLD SERIES!

06-22-2024, 12:00 AM	#8
Vezna31 All Star Starter Join Date: May 2004 Location: Wherever My VPN says Posts: 1,986	Out of 708 relievers in my league, including minors, international, and free agents, my league has one 5.0 star reliever, and four 3.5 star relievers. The rest are 3 star and lower. In the opposing Japan league of 255 relievers in the same universe, there is one 4.5 star, two 4.0 star, and seven 3.5 star relievers. And yes...it seems like my games go one of two ways: I get shellacked for 4 or 5 runs in the 1st or 2nd inning, or I bring in a reliever late that gets knocked around and loses the lead to take the loss. __________________ Owner/Operator - Vezna Financial Services - Accounting and taxes.

06-13-2024, 08:10 PM	#2
ayaghmour2 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 3,049	This is a purposeful change done to better mimic the real life rating of relievers. A thread on it if you are interested: https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=355263 The star rating is not why your pen is getting torched, its likely the individual pitchers ratings. That's always more important then the overall ratings

06-14-2024, 07:59 PM	#7
smythejd All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,023	Thanks for the link ayaghmour2. I understand the change to the RP ratings, just having a hard time adjusting to my bullpen getting lit up so often.

06-23-2024, 08:42 AM	#9
OutS\|der Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: In A Van Down By The River Posts: 2,720 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	When players are rated based on all players then some positions will not be rated as highly no matter how talented the player is. Going by the 20-80 scale Relievers are hard to value in this sense, as many people and scouts would say you’re crazy to not call Mariano Rivera an 80 since he’s the best ever. The problem is that assumes he’s as valuable as Mike Trout, which significantly fewer people believe. The game isn't this extreme yet but it has gotten closer to this model. take Mariano Rivera for example, his displayed ratings would drop while his true ratings stayed the same. If you uncheck Overall Ratings based on all players you should in theory see at least one 80 or 5 star player per position

07-07-2024, 11:03 PM	#12
eauhomme Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2022 Posts: 129	I, for one, am glad to see this. It has always bothered me that relievers have been overvalued by the star rating. 24 wasn't too awful on that--a 4-star reliever was equal in value to a 3-star at another position, while a 5-star was at least a 3.5 in reality. But there have been a couple OOTP versions in the past where half the bullpen was 5-star, and I always found that ridiculous.