Trade the Dude!

[ovccsteve]

LOVE the game, but like anyone have a quibble or two. One is that the AI seems to lack big-picture awareness. I've attached one example. I'd like a catcher. Atlanta has 3. One is among the best (and best-paid) in the league. Right behind him is a 24-year-old amazing product who is ML ready. And behind him is another 24-year-old who is ready to be a solid starter. Atlanta refuses to trade any one of them. This offer pictured is for the third stringer who will get <100 at bats this year. I'm offering a solid starting pitcher plus a first round pick. They respond that the only way to complete the trade is for me to throw in a AAA pitcher who is currently the #1 rated prospect in baseball.
I have no idea how to implement it, but the AI seems to always be unaware that while a player may have potential value, their value to the team that owns them may be minimal. (Atlanta's all-star catcher is signed for four more years, and they are not willing to trade him either.) I see so many talented players waste their careers as backups on teams that have legitimate needs (even if it's just building their farm systems). Anyway, if this could ever be fixed it would make me even happier with the game.

[Hooray Saturday]

if you're playing in commish mode and a trade makes sense to you for both teams you can always "force trade"

[OutS|der]

I'd rather have a solid starter as my 3rd stringer then a 1st round pick. This is Baseball where draft picks are a crap shoot so you're draft pick has little value.

I wouldn't trade if I was Atlanta either.

[md40022]

Originally Posted by OutS|der

I'd rather have a solid starter as my 3rd stringer then a 1st round pick.

Most would completely disagree with this.....

How many at-bats is a 3rd string catcher getting over the course of a season? Factor in that the 1st stringer is a certified stud and the #2 is of starting caliber himself from what the original poster said and realistically there is no reason for a #3 catcher to even be on the active roster to be honest considering how little playing time would be available for him.

Your point about 1st round picks being a crap shoot is valid, but given the above scenario I would think most people are taking that crap shoot. Plus he mentions also offering a "solid" SP (the contract of this SP is a wildcard, admittedly), which should give you solid 150 innings - much more value than the 50 at bats that the 3rd string catcher might see. Not saying that they should give away one of the catchers, but to have all 3 of them as virtually untouchable is silly. Look across MLB, the job description of a #2 catcher is pretty much 'handle pitching staff and try to hit .200." Rostering 3 starting caliber catchers at the same time absolutely never happens because every single GM would be looking to move at least one, if not 2 of those players.

I do agree with the OP's point here as I've seen similar scenarios plenty of times in my sims. Seeing this type of thing improved would be nice

[Pelican]

Agree with the above, except that catchers tend to get hurt, IRL and in OOTP. Over the course of a long season, most teams will need to play a third-string catcher.

[md40022]

Originally Posted by Pelican

Agree with the above, except that catchers tend to get hurt, IRL and in OOTP. Over the course of a long season, most teams will need to play a third-string catcher.

Absolutely, but that 3rd catcher is normally a scrap heap guy.

[ovccsteve]

A big part of the issue is that the team has weaknesses at 3B, SS, and LF. If I throw in my starting 3B, who is solid, they still won't budge. (I use 1st round picks to loosen the other team up and see what they are looking for.)
My issue is that the AI will allow them to lose games with the world's greatest 3rd-string catcher instead of give them a chance to win by trading that catcher. Sometimes when I see this, I'll Act As the other team, shop one of the players around, and get them the best offer that meets their needs.
I also have to frequently turn down trades when shopping a player because the team will offer me a very good player, for whom they don't have a good backup, to get a player they won't start because the guy they already have is better. I would love it if the AI was more aware of the team's big picture.

[ovccsteve]

So, I did an Act As and traded Atlanta's #2 catcher for a young All-Star 3B and two ML ready prospects.

[Brad K]

OP, AI teams don't like to trade young highly rated minimum wage players. Even if they're not gong to play much. I tend to agree with this.

Maybe you should try trading for the backup catcher, especially if he is making over minimum

Also if you send Atlanta a pitcher what are they going to do with the guy they already have in that roster spot? Is the pitcher you are offering really a lot better than what they have?

[ovccsteve]

It wasn’t really about that specific trade. The problem was they have one of the top 3 catchers in the game tied up for the next five years, the best catching prospect in the game, majors ready, backing him up; and a young third-string catcher who is talented enough to start for maybe 10 teams, and the AI won’t trade him. Period. In this case, I was offering a solid mid-rotation pitcher and a first-round pick just to soften things up and see what it would take to make a trade happen. The reply? The #1 prospect in baseball, who is now, halfway through the season, our staff ace.
The way the AI manages things, if I don’t intervene and trade away one of those three catchers, they will keep all three until the two young ones are past their primes, and the AI will not use the surplus to address legitimate team needs. I wasn’t as concerned with them not trading with me (I got a catcher elsewhere), as with the AI’s consistent failure to see the team’s big picture. I changed my profile to Act As that team and traded their young #2 catcher for a young, all-star 3B (which was their biggest need), and two other major-league ready prospects. I think I could have gotten slightly more.
In future updates/versions, I would like the AI to do a better job analyzing its own team’s needs and trading from surplus to address those needs. And while on the soapbox, I will frequently shop a good player, and a team will offer me back a solid player, but when I check, they are already stocked at the position of the player I’m trading. The AI will create a need to acquire a player the team doesn’t need. It’s annoying turning down a trade that I like because it makes no sense for the other team. The game has gotten much better at this, but I still have to have personal rules that keep me from taking advantage of other teams.

[Brad K]

Cheater!!! LOL. Seriously though, it's your game. Play it your way.

You advocated for your team, you advocated for the player, but you didn't advocate for the Braves.

[ovccsteve]

I didn't trade for him myself. I never use Play As to get anything for my team. I traded him to Detroit, who is starting him at C and leading their division. Currently, Atlanta's veteran is ranked first in the league at C, the guy I helped them trade to Detroit is ranked second. The main player Atlanta received in the trade is 2nd in All-Star voting at his position, helping Atlanta have the lead in the Wild Card approaching the all-star break. (My team is in the West and having an up-down season. The catcher I picked up instead is having a solid year, ranked 12th out of 30.)

[Brad K]

Post 8 didn't make it clear you didn't get him for your team. "Act As" could have referred to doing Act As for the Braves to get him. Did you have to force trade to get him to Detroit?

[OutS|der]

Another factor to consider is there was a time when teams kept 3 catchers on the roster. So the AI has to be able to account for historical play when this was more prevalent.

I agree the trade AI needs to be a lot better but there a lot of factors that we tend to overlook or don't take into account.

[md40022]

Originally Posted by OutS|der

Another factor to consider is there was a time when teams kept 3 catchers on the roster. So the AI has to be able to account for historical play when this was more prevalent.

A big part of this is because the pitching staffs weren't as big. No reliver specialists, dedicated closers, 5 man rotations, etc. = more roster spots for other players

I wouldn't think having the AI construct rosters reflective of whatever year you're playing would be an overly complicated thing. I play in modern times and don't have any problems at all with CPU controlled teams building rosters like they were still in the 50s.

I do think the OP's initial point here is valid. It's not an overly frequent thing, but from time to time this type of scenario does happen

[ovccsteve]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Post 8 didn't make it clear you didn't get him for your team. "Act As" could have referred to doing Act As for the Braves to get him. Did you have to force trade to get him to Detroit?

No. Both teams were in favor of the deal.