Player Fatigue

ayconda · 07-25-2024, 11:12 AM

Even if Position Player Fatigue is set in the historical league, it is reset after every offseason rollover.
And it seems that the fatigue level associated with pitching is not being adequately accounted for.
Even if the Position Player fatigue setting is set to none, the Pitcher Stamina exists as a separate option.
To make it easier to explain, I set the parameters to be extremely (Enable Injuries, Enable Suspensions unchecked, overpowered player creation, 162 Games, 2 Man Rotation, reset the Position Player Fatigue to None annually.), and this is the result.
I have also played OOTP 24 under exactly the same conditions.
In OOTP 25, regardless of how many games a pitcher participates in, they can now bat in all 162 games at 100% condition. This is absurd.
Since I have only played Historical league, there may be same issues in other leagues as well.

thehef · 07-25-2024, 02:54 PM

What do you mean by "set"? And do you have recalc enabled? If so, that is going to essentially wipe out any changes you may have made to the player. In addition, while I don't really know how OOTP determines the fatigue/durability rating for a player, I'm pretty sure recalc can change that on a year-by-year basis. IOW, judging by his games played, I'm assuming that OOTP would see Steve Garvey as Iron Man from 1974-82, but would not see him as particularly durable (probably Normal, possibly Fragile?) in 1983. So if you are playing in 1982, he'd likely be rated as Iron Man, but when recalc applies in the 1982-83 offseason, it will update him to some lesser durability rating...

ayconda · 07-26-2024, 03:43 AM

League Options - Players & Team - Player Injury, Fatigue & Suspensions - Position Player Fatigue. For example, even if you set the Position Player Fatigue to Moderate starting in 1871, it will reset to Low once the playoffs are over. Other options, of course, remain fixed. This is an issue unrelated to recalculation.And it seems that the fatigue level associated with pitching is not being adequately accounted for. I have added it to the main text, so I would like to discuss it together.

luckymann · 07-26-2024, 07:42 AM

Yep, this - for better or worse - is intentional, not a bug. It only applies when you have auto-expand on, no idea why.

Personally, not a fan of it either. Still, you only need to leave yourself a reminder when preseason rolls around to change the setting manually, so there are more challenging problems with the game than this.

G

uruguru · 07-26-2024, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Even if Position Player Fatigue is set in the historical league, it is reset after every offseason rollover.

If you have historical evolution on ("automatically expand league"), a lot of values will reset every year in historical games if you have recalc on. This is one of those values.

Quote:

Even if the Position Player fatigue setting is set to none, the Pitcher Stamina exists as a separate option.

Pitcher stamina controls how many pitches can be thrown in a game before the pitcher's arm tires and his effectiveness drops. If you keep a pitcher throwing after his stamina is gone, it also increases the chance of injury.

Recovery time to pitch again is control by the league settings for rotation (2-man, 3-man, etc). Sometimes if a starter pitcher throws very few pitches in a start, he'll be fully rested a day earlier. This limit is somewhere under 100 pitches and varies (I think), based on the pitcher's repertoire.

Position player fatigue is tracked separately from pitcher fatigue. Completely separately. This is what allows 2-way players to pitch on Monday and then play 1B on Tuesday. But if position fatigue is set to "None", then there is no fatigue caused by playing 1B and so they can literally do it every day they are not pitching.

Quote:

In OOTP 25, regardless of how many games a pitcher participates in, they can now bat in all 162 games at 100% condition. This is absurd.

It's not absurd. By setting that value to "None", you are basically telling OOTP that there is no fatigue associated with playing a position.

ayconda · 07-26-2024, 08:58 AM

I have also enabled the "Automatically expand league" feature, but as seen in the screenshot, the other options such as injuries, suspensions, and player development settings remain unchanged.
I'm not an old gamer, but I started with OOTP 22 (I also played OOTP 8 for free

), and the player fatigue has remained unchanged.
I do not understand why only that one option needs to change, so I believe this is a bug rather than an intentional act.

ayconda · 07-26-2024, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luckymann

AFAIK, it is an dev-intended option that was introduced in v25. One of them might come on here and confirm this to be the case, they might even explain the rationale behind it. Or not. Such is life.

G

Hmm... I still cannot understand, but such is life.

luckymann · 07-26-2024, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ayconda

I have also enabled the "Automatically expand league" feature, but as seen in the screenshot, the other options such as injuries, suspensions, and player development settings remain unchanged.
I'm not an old gamer, but I started with OOTP 22 (I also played OOTP 8 for free

), and the player fatigue has remained unchanged.
I do not understand why only that one option needs to change, so I believe this is a bug rather than an intentional act.

AFAIK, it is an dev-intended option that was introduced in v25. One of them might come on here and confirm this to be the case, they might even explain the rationale behind it. Or not. Such is life.

G

ayconda · 07-26-2024, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uruguru

If you have historical evolution on ("automatically expand league"), a lot of values will reset every year in historical games if you have recalc on. This is one of those values.

Position player fatigue is tracked separately from pitcher fatigue. Completely separately.

By setting that value to "None", you are basically telling OOTP that there is no fatigue associated with playing a position.

The "Automatically Expand League" feature has been enabled, but "recalc" has not been activated.
What is the relationship between the "Automatically Expand League" feature, which allows for the timely establishment of teams and modifications to the league structure, and player position fatigue?
If it is related, why is it not related to injury or suspension?
I have maintained the same settings, but the issue pertains solely to OOTP 25.

What I mean is that the Pitcher Stamina exists as a separate option, but it does not function properly.
I thought a screenshot would be easier to understand than words, so I shared it; did you see it?

Compare the third and fourth screenshots. (The one at the back is OOTP 24.)
Similar to OOTP 25, Position Player Fatigue was set to None.
However, despite playing fewer innings and making fewer appearances as a batter, the performance declined significantly.
This appears to be due to the fact that pitcher fatigue has not been completely alleviated.
As the number of days spent pitching increases, batting performance declines, and the frequency of playing as a hitter on rest days decreases.
So how is OOTP 25 now?
Even more extreme, I had set it up as a 1 Man Rotation, with the pitcher starting all 162 games, throwing 1,400 innings, while maintaining a strong offense completely unaffected by pitcher fatigue.
I think this is unrealistic and represents a bug where pitcher fatigue is not accurately reflected.
Could Shohei Ohtani participate in 162 games as a two-way player just because he is playing as a designated hitter?
Until now, it has been impossible both in reality and within the game, but it has become possible in v25.
It is absolutely 100% a bug.

Garlon · 07-26-2024, 12:59 PM

What pitcher fatigue do you expect with 1-man rotation? The rotation size determines the amount of days needed to recover between starts. With 1-man rotation the pitcher will continuously be fully rested and ready for their next start.

ayconda · 07-26-2024, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garlon

What pitcher fatigue do you expect with 1-man rotation? The rotation size determines the amount of days needed to recover between starts. With 1-man rotation the pitcher will continuously be fully rested and ready for their next start.

I have attached the screenshot.Except for the differences in the versions, the settings are exactly the same.The one at the back is OOTP 24.
(Enable Injuries, Enable Suspensions unchecked, overpowered player creation, 162 Games, 1 Man Rotation, reset the Position Player Fatigue to None annually, etc)
As you can see, we pitch and hit regardless of the number of days needed to recover between starts.
This indicates that pitcher fatigue is not being adequately factored into pitching and hitting performance.

Garlon · 07-27-2024, 01:40 AM

This may be intended so that a player like Ohtani does not bat .190 in the game.

ayconda · 07-27-2024, 03:01 AM

If the impact of pitcher fatigue on performance is excessive, adjustments should be made. (Personally, I believe it is appropriate.)
However, is it correct to set it in such a way that it has no effect at all?
And as you can see, the issue isn't limited to just batting, is it?
In v25, he throws 150 pitches daily while also participating as a batter; yet the next day, he fully recovers and showcases 100% performance once again.
This continues throughout the entire season.

07-25-2024, 11:12 AM	#1
ayconda Bat Boy Join Date: Jul 2024 Posts: 7	Player Fatigue Even if Position Player Fatigue is set in the historical league, it is reset after every offseason rollover. And it seems that the fatigue level associated with pitching is not being adequately accounted for. Even if the Position Player fatigue setting is set to none, the Pitcher Stamina exists as a separate option. To make it easier to explain, I set the parameters to be extremely (Enable Injuries, Enable Suspensions unchecked, overpowered player creation, 162 Games, 2 Man Rotation, reset the Position Player Fatigue to None annually.), and this is the result. I have also played OOTP 24 under exactly the same conditions. In OOTP 25, regardless of how many games a pitcher participates in, they can now bat in all 162 games at 100% condition. This is absurd. Since I have only played Historical league, there may be same issues in other leagues as well. Attached Images Last edited by ayconda; 07-26-2024 at 10:34 PM.

07-26-2024, 03:43 AM	#3
ayconda Bat Boy Join Date: Jul 2024 Posts: 7	League Options - Players & Team - Player Injury, Fatigue & Suspensions - Position Player Fatigue. For example, even if you set the Position Player Fatigue to Moderate starting in 1871, it will reset to Low once the playoffs are over. Other options, of course, remain fixed. This is an issue unrelated to recalculation.And it seems that the fatigue level associated with pitching is not being adequately accounted for. I have added it to the main text, so I would like to discuss it together. Last edited by ayconda; 07-26-2024 at 03:56 AM.

07-26-2024, 07:42 AM	#4
luckymann Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 13,312	Yep, this - for better or worse - is intentional, not a bug. It only applies when you have auto-expand on, no idea why. Personally, not a fan of it either. Still, you only need to leave yourself a reminder when preseason rolls around to change the setting manually, so there are more challenging problems with the game than this. G __________________ HISTORICAL DO-OVERS A'S RED SOX DODGERS CUSTOM SAVES ECLIPSE LEAGUE MOON SHOT LEAGUE EVERYMAN LEAGUE GULF LEAGUE USBA Last edited by luckymann; 07-26-2024 at 07:44 AM.

07-25-2024, 02:54 PM	#2
thehef Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,345	What do you mean by "set"? And do you have recalc enabled? If so, that is going to essentially wipe out any changes you may have made to the player. In addition, while I don't really know how OOTP determines the fatigue/durability rating for a player, I'm pretty sure recalc can change that on a year-by-year basis. IOW, judging by his games played, I'm assuming that OOTP would see Steve Garvey as Iron Man from 1974-82, but would not see him as particularly durable (probably Normal, possibly Fragile?) in 1983. So if you are playing in 1982, he'd likely be rated as Iron Man, but when recalc applies in the 1982-83 offseason, it will update him to some lesser durability rating...

07-26-2024, 08:58 AM	#6
ayconda Bat Boy Join Date: Jul 2024 Posts: 7	I have also enabled the "Automatically expand league" feature, but as seen in the screenshot, the other options such as injuries, suspensions, and player development settings remain unchanged. I'm not an old gamer, but I started with OOTP 22 (I also played OOTP 8 for free ), and the player fatigue has remained unchanged. I do not understand why only that one option needs to change, so I believe this is a bug rather than an intentional act.

07-26-2024, 12:59 PM	#10
Garlon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,256	What pitcher fatigue do you expect with 1-man rotation? The rotation size determines the amount of days needed to recover between starts. With 1-man rotation the pitcher will continuously be fully rested and ready for their next start.

07-27-2024, 01:40 AM	#12
Garlon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,256	This may be intended so that a player like Ohtani does not bat .190 in the game.

07-27-2024, 03:01 AM	#13
ayconda Bat Boy Join Date: Jul 2024 Posts: 7	If the impact of pitcher fatigue on performance is excessive, adjustments should be made. (Personally, I believe it is appropriate.) However, is it correct to set it in such a way that it has no effect at all? And as you can see, the issue isn't limited to just batting, is it? In v25, he throws 150 pitches daily while also participating as a batter; yet the next day, he fully recovers and showcases 100% performance once again. This continues throughout the entire season.