Please Get Rid of Combinators

[diamondgirl]

I've played ootp forever, I will play 26, but this PT game is just not fun anymore.

I have come under unfortunate circumstances and cannot afford to spend thousands of dollars to upgrade my cards the same as seemingly everyone else in every tournament I play.

I realized what was happening in the iron/bronze/silver ranks early on. But now people have jacked up diamond teams.

whats the point in trying to play against them if you don't have combinators?

To be honest, I tried last week to build an iron team. I spent the 200,000 points i had AND BOUGHT $100 USD to top up.

Using combinators i already had, I managed to get 4 cards to level 1, 2 cards to level 2, and ONE card to LEVEL THREE. I lost the roll on 70%+ 3 times.

I think the game has swung so far beyond what EA sports does to you to win that its just not fun like it used to be.

Really really hoping this was a one-shot deal, realizing that it doesn't help with enjoyment of the game as a really amazing card collection gets mashed by thousand dollar teams.

[diamondgirl]

OR make the Combinator + Combinator Caps the 'niche' style. Right now there is only one daily/weekly tournament that is combinator free.

I think it should be the other way around, but maybe more than 1 combinator edition tourney.

[Magus978]

Originally Posted by diamondgirl

I've played ootp forever, I will play 26, but this PT game is just not fun anymore.

I have come under unfortunate circumstances and cannot afford to spend thousands of dollars to upgrade my cards the same as seemingly everyone else in every tournament I play.

I realized what was happening in the iron/bronze/silver ranks early on. But now people have jacked up diamond teams.

whats the point in trying to play against them if you don't have combinators?

To be honest, I tried last week to build an iron team. I spent the 200,000 points i had AND BOUGHT $100 USD to top up.

Using combinators i already had, I managed to get 4 cards to level 1, 2 cards to level 2, and ONE card to LEVEL THREE. I lost the roll on 70%+ 3 times.

I think the game has swung so far beyond what EA sports does to you to win that its just not fun like it used to be.

Really really hoping this was a one-shot deal, realizing that it doesn't help with enjoyment of the game as a really amazing card collection gets mashed by thousand dollar teams.

The elites will tell you three things:

1. Be happy in the lower levels
2. Be happy to lose to their credit card teams on a daily basis
3. Play live tournaments if you don't like combinators

They will stop short of telling you to quit if you don't like it, because they need jobbers to beat on.

I didn't accept that, so I walked away despite having been in the top 20 in diamond tournament standings the past 2-3 months (most of those spent without winning a single tournament until the day I actually quit). For what it's worth, I had a few combis but I tried to pad the squad out with the best non-combi players I could get my hands on. Resulted in alot of pity pack finishes/silver choice packs with the occasional gold/low diamond choice. All in all, 2+ months of being nothing more than a PTCS points compiler with nothing to show for it. That took me to the end of my rope pretty quickly.

375k just isn't enough to build a top flight tournament team even if you get absurdly lucky. That probably only gets you 1, *maybe* 2 of the meta combis. Then you have to consider fodder to give them. The math doesn't math at that price

Being just another loser isn't my idea of fun, especially when I know that if you give me an even-ish playing field I can probably win at least one major tournament, maybe two.

[daves]

The OOTP has come up with some great ideas to make the game fun and interesting. Unfortunately, Combinators were not one of those good ideas. I am not sure any of the PT25 ideas were that great besides some of the PD formats. There is always next year?

[Fabtron7]

Originally Posted by daves

The OOTP has come up with some great ideas to make the game fun and interesting. Unfortunately, Combinators were not one of those good ideas. I am not sure any of the PT25 ideas were that great besides some of the PD formats. There is always next year?

At its core the original motivation for combinators was great. It was the implementation that turned out to be brutally bad… There were a couple things that would have made the system work smoothly off the top but there was really no way to beta test what it would be like when tens of thousands of people were combinating.

That said, I’d think the best course of action would be to just toss it on the scrap heap and walk away, because if it gets borked again in PT26 it’s another burned cycle.

[diamondgirl]

Originally Posted by Magus978

The elites will tell you three things:

1. Be happy in the lower levels
2. Be happy to lose to their credit card teams on a daily basis
3. Play live tournaments if you don't like combinators

They will stop short of telling you to quit if you don't like it, because they need jobbers to beat on.

I didn't accept that, so I walked away despite having been in the top 20 in diamond tournament standings the past 2-3 months (most of those spent without winning a single tournament until the day I actually quit). For what it's worth, I had a few combis but I tried to pad the squad out with the best non-combi players I could get my hands on. Resulted in alot of pity pack finishes/silver choice packs with the occasional gold/low diamond choice. All in all, 2+ months of being nothing more than a PTCS points compiler with nothing to show for it. That took me to the end of my rope pretty quickly.

375k just isn't enough to build a top flight tournament team even if you get absurdly lucky. That probably only gets you 1, *maybe* 2 of the meta combis. Then you have to consider fodder to give them. The math doesn't math at that price

Being just another loser isn't my idea of fun, especially when I know that if you give me an even-ish playing field I can probably win at least one major tournament, maybe two.

All of this.

[LeeD]

Yes, you can put me in the "get rid of combinators" camp; however, many of the upgrades are not as expensive people are making out. As usual with combinators, it depends on the card.

A for instance is the 92 Ashburn card, which is very good in low diamond tournaments. If you've completed the BBRef set then you have a lot of combi food for this card, as almost none of the low diamond BBRef cards are useful in league but are very useful for upgrading Ashburn (or any other BBRef combinator you might draw). Those, plus the relatively cheap Robin Roberts (about 7K for 1600 combi points) makes for an inexpensive upgrade to Level 5. Fill in the extras with long-time teammates Willie Jones and Curt Simmons (inexpensive Silvers).

Some Combinator tricks:

1. Use locked cards that aren't otherwise useful and are unlikely to be added to new missions (yes, it's guesswork).

2. Look for cards that deliver more combi points than they cost (like getting 300 combi points for a Silver that costs 150).

3. Avoid using anything above a Silver as combi food unless it adds at least 500 points, and obviously avoid using cards that are part of an uncompleted mission.

[Kushiel]

I agree that Combinators have driven the nail in the coffin for many players. As it stands now, I will not play PT26 because of this mess of 25. I am playing out the string only now this year. I have been on the fence since April and the past few weeks the breeze blew me to the "Network" side, "I'm mad as hell and not going to take it anymore." I also very much doubt that I will give present ownership the cost of the game at all next Spring.

Flame away, but I will not engage. I am beyond that as I don't care enough about the game that I so passionately defended 5 years ago.

[daves]

There was a time in the past that I felt I can compete at the perfect league level, maybe win a playoff series or two. However, in PT25 there is a 5-time Perfect League champion in my division with 17 combinators of top-notch players on their current roster that makes them near impossible to beat.

I have to agree that combinators crushed the competitiveness of this game.

[diamondgirl]

Originally Posted by Kushiel

I agree that Combinators have driven the nail in the coffin for many players. As it stands now, I will not play PT26 because of this mess of 25. I am playing out the string only now this year. I have been on the fence since April and the past few weeks the breeze blew me to the "Network" side, "I'm mad as hell and not going to take it anymore." I also very much doubt that I will give present ownership the cost of the game at all next Spring.

Flame away, but I will not engage. I am beyond that as I don't care enough about the game that I so passionately defended 5 years ago.

From our great philosophers: The Clan of Wu Tang

Cash Rules Everything Around Me

[diamondgirl]

Originally Posted by LeeD

Yes, you can put me in the "get rid of combinators" camp; however, many of the upgrades are not as expensive people are making out. As usual with combinators, it depends on the card.

A for instance is the 92 Ashburn card, which is very good in low diamond tournaments. If you've completed the BBRef set then you have a lot of combi food for this card, as almost none of the low diamond BBRef cards are useful in league but are very useful for upgrading Ashburn (or any other BBRef combinator you might draw). Those, plus the relatively cheap Robin Roberts (about 7K for 1600 combi points) makes for an inexpensive upgrade to Level 5. Fill in the extras with long-time teammates Willie Jones and Curt Simmons (inexpensive Silvers).

Some Combinator tricks:

1. Use locked cards that aren't otherwise useful and are unlikely to be added to new missions (yes, it's guesswork).

2. Look for cards that deliver more combi points than they cost (like getting 300 combi points for a Silver that costs 150).

3. Avoid using anything above a Silver as combi food unless it adds at least 500 points, and obviously avoid using cards that are part of an uncompleted mission.

I love my collection more than the combinator opportunity. Will only use duplicates really.
Sure, I could blow up my entire collection and have a great silver tournament team using all my 102 perfects. But then what of my main roster?
I have to pick between having one single good team that can only play in tournaments, or a balanced team that can play in any era's tourneys and hunt down promotions?

Or go broke and have both. My mortgage payments would be pissed.

[Magus978]

Originally Posted by diamondgirl

I love my collection more than the combinator opportunity. Will only use duplicates really.
Sure, I could blow up my entire collection and have a great silver tournament team using all my 102 perfects. But then what of my main roster?
I have to pick between having one single good team that can only play in tournaments, or a balanced team that can play in any era's tourneys and hunt down promotions?

Or go broke and have both. My mortgage payments would be pissed.

I had that same decision...either punt league to go all in on tournaments, or punt being competitive in tournament play to chase promotions. The decision was an easy one for me early on since I really don't care about league all that much since I had achieved my goal of not getting shutout in league titles like I did last cycle.

Once I was done being good but not great in silver I switched to diamond tournaments and realized I could still post a reasonably competitive league team with an oops no perfects strategy. It hung around in diamond/gold for awhile but now has gone back down since I stopped playing.

As for that 5-time PeL champion Daves, I think you're talking about the Newton Sloths? I figure if you have the points/money, flaunt it. I don't begrudge them one bit. Not just because they are a fellow HotL group member as I am, but they win their fair share of dailies and weeklies so they can sell and re-invest. Fair play when you have the skill to win big tournaments on a regular basis, then be able to pivot in the market smoothly to make the points. Gotta do what you gotta do to maintain the success. Long may it last (particularly since I'll never make it back to PeL in any cycle. PT21 was my last time in PeL and it was only for 2 weeks).

[diamondgirl]

Originally Posted by Magus978

I had that same decision...either punt league to go all in on tournaments, or punt being competitive in tournament play to chase promotions. The decision was an easy one for me early on since I really don't care about league all that much since I had achieved my goal of not getting shutout in league titles like I did last cycle.

Once I was done being good but not great in silver I switched to diamond tournaments and realized I could still post a reasonably competitive league team with an oops no perfects strategy. It hung around in diamond/gold for awhile but now has gone back down since I stopped playing.

As for that 5-time PeL champion Daves, I think you're talking about the Newton Sloths? I figure if you have the points/money, flaunt it. I don't begrudge them one bit. Not just because they are a fellow HotL group member as I am, but they win their fair share of dailies and weeklies so they can sell and re-invest. Fair play when you have the skill to win big tournaments on a regular basis, then be able to pivot in the market smoothly to make the points. Gotta do what you gotta do to maintain the success. Long may it last (particularly since I'll never make it back to PeL in any cycle. PT21 was my last time in PeL and it was only for 2 weeks).

Ya, I actually kicked some good Diamond butt early on. League and tourneys. Understanding that collections would build up and I'd probably get down to gold/silver league.
But getting crushed in every tourney when we have the "same rules" is silly.

But this mega hate came very recently when I got destroyed in a diamond tournament, investigated, and saw a team with all diamond combinators.

As long as they exist, I cannot win.

[Magus978]

Originally Posted by diamondgirl

Ya, I actually kicked some good Diamond butt early on. League and tourneys. Understanding that collections would build up and I'd probably get down to gold/silver league.
But getting crushed in every tourney when we have the "same rules" is silly.

But this mega hate came very recently when I got destroyed in a diamond tournament, investigated, and saw a team with all diamond combinators.

As long as they exist, I cannot win.

Ultimately, the winning move is not to play. I've actually found my mental health improving since I gave up. PT had me quite depressed during my two month tournament winless slump. That depressed feeling was seeping into my personal life and I had the whole of HotL begging me to step away and take a break. Couldn't do that until I snapped the streak, so naturally the day I was finally ready to give up I win one. Figure that one out

[diamondgirl]

Also an easy solution - make it accessible to everyone. Decrease the points needed for success, or - increase points per card.

Sure, I'll use a diamond card to combi, but it should get me a good chunk of level 5. Not 2% of level 3.

[bailey]

Originally Posted by Fabtron7

At its core the original motivation for combinators was great. It was the implementation that turned out to be brutally bad… There were a couple things that would have made the system work smoothly off the top but there was really no way to beta test what it would be like when tens of thousands of people were combinating.

That said, I’d think the best course of action would be to just toss it on the scrap heap and walk away, because if it gets borked again in PT26 it’s another burned cycle.

That's disappointing! A while back you exhorted people to adapt. Since the August refresh, I've adapted and am doing just fine without any CC.

[daves]

Originally Posted by Magus978

As for that 5-time PeL champion Daves, I think you're talking about the Newton Sloths? I figure if you have the points/money, flaunt it. I don't begrudge them one bit. Not just because they are a fellow HotL group member as I am, but they win their fair share of dailies and weeklies so they can sell and re-invest. Fair play when you have the skill to win big tournaments on a regular basis, then be able to pivot in the market smoothly to make the points. Gotta do what you gotta do to maintain the success. Long may it last (particularly since I'll never make it back to PeL in any cycle. PT21 was my last time in PeL and it was only for 2 weeks).

I am not faulting the team for winning, I am just pointing out how combinators have made the field more uneven. Even compared to the past versions.


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[Magus978]

Originally Posted by daves

I am not faulting the team for winning, I am just pointing out how combinators have made the field more uneven. Even compared to the past versions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No no, I get it and I agree. I was just figuring out who you were talking about. All good

[Fabtron7]

Originally Posted by bailey

That's disappointing! A while back you exhorted people to adapt. Since the August refresh, I've adapted and am doing just fine without any CC.

Yeah my advocacy for people do accept and adapt to combinators 100% came from my guess that nothing was going to change about them and complaining about them non-stop was basically the equivalent of hitting your head against a brick wall. Nothing’s changed there.

I’ve shut it down for PT25 for a handful of reasons, not just combinators, and I’m not confident any of them will change in PT26… but we won’t know until we know.

[bailey]

Originally Posted by Fabtron7

Yeah my advocacy for people do accept and adapt to combinators 100% came from my guess that nothing was going to change about them and complaining about them non-stop was basically the equivalent of hitting your head against a brick wall. Nothing’s changed there.

I’ve shut it down for PT25 for a handful of reasons, not just combinators, and I’m not confident any of them will change in PT26… but we won’t know until we know.

Nothing changed about the CC, but there are plenty of options now where CC are prohibited (or limited to one) and therefore can be avoided. The only way I encounter them is in PTCS, which doesn't bother me because I'm terrible at making new teams. So, yeah, complaining about them is like complaining about death and taxes.