How has this team not been promoted (something seems fishy)?

[Lathum]

I started another team a couple weeks ago. They are currently in a stone level league. In this league there is a team that is 89-0. I just figured they had an amazing pull or dumped a ton of money in to it.

Went to the managers history and this team has been at stone level 20 years! Winning over 100 games every year, most years 150 games, and made the playoffs every year without winning the world series.

Something seems very fishy, how is this possible?

[Leo_The_Lip]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I started another team a couple weeks ago. They are currently in a stone level league. In this league there is a team that is 89-0. I just figured they had an amazing pull or dumped a ton of money in to it.

Went to the managers history and this team has been at stone level 20 years! Winning over 100 games every year, most years 150 gameusis, and made the playoffs every year without winning the world series.

Something seems very fishy, how is this possible?

check on Sunday before the season rolls over. He is likely pulling his entire team and using IRON 40's in the first round of the playoffs. Since all playoff games and stats disappeat each season, only by taking a screen shot of his games can you prove these Deep Sheep are cheating.

I reported one of these Deep Sheep a few seasons back and I'm not certain they actually did anything about it.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Leo_The_Lip

check on Sunday before the season rolls over. He is likely pulling his entire team and using IRON 40's in the first round of the playoffs. Since all playoff games and stats disappeat each season, only by taking a screen shot of his games can you prove these Deep Sheep are cheating.

I reported one of these Deep Sheep a few seasons back and I'm not certain they actually did anything about it.

What the heck is the point of doing that? To dominate stone level, lol. What a loser/

[Ty Cobb]

The point is points. Use the report team option, because they're running a points factory. The PT Team is good about checking these things out.

[pastorjoeboggs]

Originally Posted by Ty Cobb

The point is points. Use the report team option, because they're running a points factory. The PT Team is good about checking these things out.

I think they should leave those teams alone. In a game where the economic mechanism is so broken, farming points like that might be the only way a non-whale can be competitive.

If they're not willing to do anything to make the game economy more balanced (either by adding a price cap to card sales or by adjusting the odds and populating more of the higher value cards), then people should be allowed to use whatever mechanism they can to get the points.

Along the same lines, there shouldn't be any penalty for players that invest in two licenses and move players from one team to another. It's not fundamentally different than buying points.

[Tinkerman]

Having to deal with nonsense like this seems like such a waste of time for the devs. A better pro/rel system that couldn't be exploited in this way would be good. If people can't cheat, there's no need to report them!

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by pastorjoeboggs

I think they should leave those teams alone. In a game where the economic mechanism is so broken, farming points like that might be the only way a non-whale can be competitive.

If they're not willing to do anything to make the game economy more balanced (either by adding a price cap to card sales or by adjusting the odds and populating more of the higher value cards), then people should be allowed to use whatever mechanism they can to get the points.

Along the same lines, there shouldn't be any penalty for players that invest in two licenses and move players from one team to another. It's not fundamentally different than buying points.

Bad take. This player is earning points at the expense of me and everyone else in the league.

[pastorjoeboggs]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Bad take. This player is earning points at the expense of me and everyone else in the league.

Perhaps. But the larger point stands - they've created a system where the only ways to win are either invest an absurd amount of money, an absurd amount of time, or cheat. It doesn't exactly seem reasonable or right to fix the problem one without at least attempting to address the problems with the others.

[ianmleavitt]

Originally Posted by pastorjoeboggs

Perhaps. But the larger point stands - they've created a system where the only ways to win are either invest an absurd amount of money, an absurd amount of time, or cheat. It doesn't exactly seem reasonable or right to fix the problem one without at least attempting to address the problems with the others.

It depends on what you consider to be "winning" in this context. Sure, PP farming at the lower levels means you'll likely win plenty of games - but those wins are pretty meaningless in the larger scheme of the game.

Perhaps you see winning as capturing the Perfect Team championship? Completing all missions? Taking home a PTCS/PTMS/PTWC crown? Having a copy of every card? No matter what the choice, there has to be something invested to get to that point - be it time or money (as money is simply a replacement for time). Having a system in a game such as this where you need neither in order to "win" is nonsensical.

[Ty Cobb]

the PT Terms of Service if you haven't. Among many other things, you agree that you will not, nor will you encourage another to:

1. Use coding exploits for competitive advantage
2. Cheat, deliberately lose, trade points or feed points...or otherwise fail to make a good faith effort...
3. Deliberately manipulate the game economy

If you are in violation, you may be banned, deleted, or suspended for violating any portion of the TOS. See: Settings/Troubleshooting/Show License & PT TOS Information.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Leo_The_Lip

check on Sunday before the season rolls over. He is likely pulling his entire team and using IRON 40's in the first round of the playoffs. Since all playoff games and stats disappeat each season, only by taking a screen shot of his games can you prove these Deep Sheep are cheating.

I reported one of these Deep Sheep a few seasons back and I'm not certain they actually did anything about it.

This is exactly what happened.

[pastorjoeboggs]

Originally Posted by ianmleavitt

It depends on what you consider to be "winning" in this context. Sure, PP farming at the lower levels means you'll likely win plenty of games - but those wins are pretty meaningless in the larger scheme of the game.

Perhaps you see winning as capturing the Perfect Team championship? Completing all missions? Taking home a PTCS/PTMS/PTWC crown? Having a copy of every card? No matter what the choice, there has to be something invested to get to that point - be it time or money (as money is simply a replacement for time). Having a system in a game such as this where you need neither in order to "win" is nonsensical.

That's a great point. There are ways to "win" that I hadn't considered.

I still think that the system is skewed excessively in favor of the people who have a lot of surplus money and/or a lot of surplus time to invest in any of the "wins" you mentioned.

But I'm self-aware enough to know that a good portion of that may come from my bitterness at playing the game since release date and not once getting a historical perfect card from a pack in my main team.

Thanks for the perspective.

[pastorjoeboggs]

Originally Posted by Ty Cobb

the PT Terms of Service if you haven't. Among many other things, you agree that you will not, nor will you encourage another to:

1. Use coding exploits for competitive advantage
2. Cheat, deliberately lose, trade points or feed points...or otherwise fail to make a good faith effort...
3. Deliberately manipulate the game economy

If you are in violation, you may be banned, deleted, or suspended for violating any portion of the TOS. See: Settings/Troubleshooting/Show License & PT TOS Information.

I don't think my posts could be construed as encouraging anyone to break the rules.

But to be clear - as long as the TOS are as they are - teams should be punished for intentionally losing in the playoffs to farm points or any other violations of the TOS.

My point is more a questioning of the rationale for the rule about tanking. How is tanking to gain perfect points any less of a manipulation of the game economy than buy a few hundred dollars worth of points and driving the price of cards up so that an FTP player can have little hope of ever gaining enough to complete missions?

(I understand that the whales buying points greatly benefits the devs and will - should - not be banned. But is it not a form of manipulating the game economy?)

[Ty Cobb]

I wasn’t trying to rebuke you, Pastor Joe. I was just trying to remind people at large that there are clear cut mechanisms for dealing with many of these issues. I imagine 90% of the players of PT have never even given a thought to the TOS. I also imagine that 90-95% are honest players just trying their best to win.

The rule about tanking is to prevent abuse at the lower levels by unscrupulous players. Who is hurt by tanking?

1. New players…ie future long term paying customers. That takes money right out of the company’s pocket. Let’s not forget that PT is a business, and like all other honestly run businesses, the goal is to make a profit.

2. Honest players, who are victimized by not getting the points they should. That would be folks like you…and me…and Lathum. Report cheaters. They’re eating from your plate. Punish them.

3. Most of the economic manipulation occurring is not inflicted by whales. They don’t give a rat’s patoot about prices—they break out the wallet. The folks screwing up the prices are greedy FTP players trying to flip cards for quick, easy profit by hoarding and reselling. I won’t even sell below L10 anymore unless it’s so close to the L10 that a profit can’t be turned. Those offers for 1,001 for a Gold Card…those are most likely card flippers, not whales.

4. Is buying points a form of manipulating game economy? In a vacuum, yes. PT isn’t played in a vacuum. There are rules, and when you play you agree to those rules. Buying points is part of the rules, just as getting a free pack for logging in each day is. That sentence strikes me as grammatically infirm, but c’est la vie.

The rules in PT exist for a reason. Maybe that reason is as simple as, “Markus made it that way.” There are PT rules I don’t particularly like, and I quietly lobby for change behind the scenes. Sometimes it works, others not. I wasn’t always that way, and I regret that.

Personal note: I sincerely hope you draw a historical perfect soon. The first one is magical!

[the_mad_monk]

Originally Posted by Leo_The_Lip

check on Sunday before the season rolls over. He is likely pulling his entire team and using IRON 40's in the first round of the playoffs. Since all playoff games and stats disappeat each season, only by taking a screen shot of his games can you prove these Deep Sheep are cheating.

I reported one of these Deep Sheep a few seasons back and I'm not certain they actually did anything about it.

Aren't the team Promotions/Relegations determined by regular season standings?

[dishnet34]

Originally Posted by the_mad_monk

Aren't the team Promotions/Relegations determined by regular season standings?

Nope; it is playoff result first, and if the number of teams promoted is greater than the number of playoff teams (which at this point it does not), only then does it get to regular season record. That is the way it always has been.

[the_mad_monk]

So, owner puts in all his 100+ cards at the beginning of a season to crush competition and accumulate inflated PP. Then replaces them all with <50 cards at the beginning of the playoffs to tank and remain at same level. Repeat. Profit.

[LeeD]

Originally Posted by Ty Cobb

3. Most of the economic manipulation occurring is not inflicted by whales. They don’t give a rat’s patoot about prices—they break out the wallet. The folks screwing up the prices are greedy FTP players trying to flip cards for quick, easy profit by hoarding and reselling. I won’t even sell below L10 anymore unless it’s so close to the L10 that a profit can’t be turned. Those offers for 1,001 for a Gold Card…those are most likely card flippers, not whales.

This is happening more and more often to more and more mission streams. I'm even seeing obvious evidence of people hoarding Iron cards that belong to multiple missions, bidding 10 five times and then reselling for 30-something. Sheesh. These people must spend their entire days in the card shop rather than playing and improving their teams.

In regard to the issue of playoff tanking...

Lathum is right. Those points are surely going somewhere, probably to another team owned by the same player, either by buying the other team's unneeded cards at a premium or by buying overpriced mission cards and then funneling them to the other team at a lower price.

[Tinkerman]

Originally Posted by LeeD

...bidding 10 five times and then reselling for 30-something.

People buying combi food, and people trying to exploit them. Some will pay way over for food, so there are others who look to cash in on that.

[Hawkwing7423]

Originally Posted by Lathum

This is exactly what happened.

I thought the code would stop you for tanking. I was playing around with my alt team and at one point put in a grey pitcher starter in bronze league for a game week (actual few hours) (40 ERA by the way, yikes). It allowed one, but not 2 starters like that.

So I thought the code would prevent this. It's too dumb to stop someone from putting in all 40's at once in the playoffs?

If not, it seems like something they should look at for next version, especially if it's costing them money and hurting customer appeal.

Originally Posted by Ty Cobb

Personal note: I sincerely hope you draw a historical perfect soon. The first one is magical!

I got a 102 Tom Seaver quite a while back. I've still only made it up to Gold and old Tom is getting worse at that level but it's been fun to watch his seasons.