Good Read: Sonny Liston

[Cobra Mgr]

Was Muhammad Ali's most famous photo a lie? The many mysteries of Sonny Liston, boxing's menacing, mob-affiliated sledgehammer

[Jordan]

What part's the lie? Read the whole thing and this is much travelled material

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Jordan

What part's the lie? Read the whole thing and this is much travelled material

That Ali truly KO'd Liston in the 1st round. It has always been rumoured he was ordered to take a dive.

That part is old news. Since I'm not a boxing aficionado, the stuff about Sonny's background was new to me. I also didn't know he died so young.

[Jordan]

Yeah they mention that it's not really known how old he actually was. But that it wasn't that long after 2nd Ali fight that he was gone (<10 years is truly not long anymore to me)

I've long thought that people who like to claim Ali didn't even hit Liston in the 2nd fight KO are actually people who didn't like what Ali was about, but hid behind Liston's mob ties so they could discredit Ali/Liston II

[CONN CHRIS]

The general consensus all these years later is that it was a real punch. Did Liston dive for the mob? Maybe.

In terms of Ali's legacy, it doesn't make much difference. He defended the title 7 or 8 times after that and before the suspension.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Jordan

I've long thought that people who like to claim Ali didn't even hit Liston in the 2nd fight KO are actually people who didn't like what Ali was about, but hid behind Liston's mob ties so they could discredit Ali/Liston II

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

The general consensus all these years later is that it was a real punch. Did Liston dive for the mob? Maybe.

In terms of Ali's legacy, it doesn't make much difference. He defended the title 7 or 8 times after that and before the suspension.

You 2 basically summarize what the author concluded. I think most of the theories could be true. We don't truly know.

I found it interesting how hard professional boxers said Sonny's punches were. He sounded like another Tyson. Just point him at the target & let nature take its course.

[CONN CHRIS]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

I found it interesting how hard professional boxers said Sonny's punches were. He sounded like another Tyson. Just point him at the target & let nature take its course.

Yeah, he was known to be scary. Ali always said that Earnie Shavers hit the hardest. He had good yard sticks to use for comparison in Liston, Cleveland Williams, and Forman.

[Ragnar]

As much as my father hated him, I loved Ali when I was a kid. My favorite boxer to this day.

That said, I think Liston took a dive. I don't know this for sure, I can't. Because the punch did land. But without weight behind it. In the first round, so Liston wasn't spent.

Where there is smoke there's fire. No one can ever know if someone takes a dive unless they admit to it. But I'm sure it has happened. This was probably one of those times. Ali would have beaten him anyway. Hit the canvas and take the money.

[Cap]

I'm of the opinion that Ali's punch did land and Liston went down. Would he be able to rise from it? He'd lost to him before and like Duran he said to himself "No Mas!". He had his money and didn't want to continue being humiliated.

Prior to Ali, Liston was considered a monster, but he didn't have much real competition. A big fast-moving guy like Ali was Tunney to his Dempsey.

Cap